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Old 29th July 2018, 20:43   #801  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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prehistory
This is why I focused on the newest Pentiums like the G5400 - one can't use the "old" argument if they're literally the newest generation of Pentiums available.
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Old 29th July 2018, 21:34   #802  |  Link
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For me, a poor man and an enthusiast, let's say novelties, in Central Europe the computer ages after five years. Then the computer for free throws into the bucket and begins the path of cost-effective recycling to Asia. For me, an inconceivable fact.
I remember the times when Intel's new processors debuted on the market every two weeks. It was a market. The world is changing and for sure it isn't an era of Intel.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic...-512-aka-avx3/

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Old 29th July 2018, 21:45   #803  |  Link
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I don't think it has any visual tuning yet, it's only being tuned for a variety of metrics. Also, AV1 uses golden frames (imho a bad legacy from vp9), so the frame quality varies quite considerably, so judging individual frames are not necessarily an accurate way to compare quality.
I believe someone explained before that the golden frame was kept consciously, and that it's no is not only not a disadvantage, but on the contrary it allows to do some stuff that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
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Old 30th July 2018, 12:08   #804  |  Link
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I believe someone explained before that the golden frame was kept consciously, and that it's no is not only not a disadvantage, but on the contrary it allows to do some stuff that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Maybe so, but it definitely has some disadvantages too. Golden frames are very noticeably higher quality than the rest of the frames, so they can cause uneven, fluctuating quality (the finer details are vanishing and coming back periodically). This can be rather distracting if you start noticing this tendency.

Granted, AV1 is much better in this regard than VP9, but this issue is still there.

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Old 30th July 2018, 13:27   #805  |  Link
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Well, "B-frame pumping" already existed in MPEG-2 times. Very noticeable in the "Animatrix" DVD. May just be a matter of tuning?
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Old 30th July 2018, 13:51   #806  |  Link
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For me, a poor man and an enthusiast, let's say novelties, in Central Europe the computer ages after five years. Then the computer for free throws into the bucket and begins the path of cost-effective recycling to Asia. For me, an inconceivable fact.
I remember the times when Intel's new processors debuted on the market every two weeks. It was a market. The world is changing and for sure it isn't an era of Intel.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic...-512-aka-avx3/
Or you mean every two years?

And as said before Skylake or whatever lake Intel has, has little to do with AVX support. All the Pentium / Celeron CPU don't support AVX, even thought they are Skylake +.

We only have to wait a few more years. We finally have a decent alternative to Intel x86.
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Old 30th July 2018, 13:53   #807  |  Link
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Well, "B-frame pumping" already existed in MPEG-2 times.
The effect is similar, but with a bigger gap. The b-frame thing occured in every 3rd frame or so, the golden frame boost happens in every 16th or so frame, and with a way higher quality boost. These factors make the ""pumping" effect more apparent. It could be tuned to be less noticeable, but that would worsen the metrics, so i doubt they would consider it.
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Old 30th July 2018, 15:11   #808  |  Link
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Maybe so, but it definitely has some disadvantages too. Golden frames are very noticeably higher quality than the rest of the frames, so they can cause uneven, fluctuating quality (the finer details are vanishing and coming back periodically). This can be rather distracting if you start noticing this tendency.

Granted, AV1 is much better in this regard than VP9, but this issue is still there.
Actually I noticed this phenomenon with (rather poor) AVC videos before, from twitch I think. Don't remember noticing it with VP9 stuff.
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Old 30th July 2018, 15:13   #809  |  Link
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We finally have a decent alternative to Intel x86.
Oh? What is that?
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Old 30th July 2018, 15:21   #810  |  Link
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But again, I have literally no idea if Ryzen APUs support HSA and hUMA, and I've even tried researching the subject.
Not supported
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AMD Raven Ridge APU are currently not supported
A little bit of history on HSA topic: post 1, post 2, post 3 (John Bridgman is AMD HSA Linux architect).

In conclusion, I believe what industry possibly need in the future is AV1 decoder implementation on Vulkan compute, that will work on ARM and Intel-based devices too (in contrary to HSA implementation). However, I think that GPU hybrid implementations will quickly sunset such efforts (attempts to implement AV1 decoder on OpenCL, Vulkan, CUDA, etc.) and make them obsolete. Eventually hybrid implementations will be replaced by more complete hardware solutions, while legacy devices will continue to decode either AV1 on CPU or recieve VP9 or H264 stream for decoding on GPU, exactly as they do now. We seen how this play out with H264->VP9 transition and I don't think this time may be different.

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Old 30th July 2018, 21:45   #811  |  Link
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The b-frame thing occured in every 3rd frame or so...
Then I used the wrong term; let's call it "GOP pumping" instead. DVD GOPs usually have a duration of half a second. And some MPEG-2 (hardware?) encoders prefer the I frame over all the following P and B frames with finer quantization. This effect was quite similar to your Golden Frame issue.
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Old 30th July 2018, 22:17   #812  |  Link
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Then I used the wrong term; let's call it "GOP pumping" instead. DVD GOPs usually have a duration of half a second. And some MPEG-2 (hardware?) encoders prefer the I frame over all the following P and B frames with finer quantization. This effect was quite similar to your Golden Frame issue.
Ah, gotcha. Indeed, it's very similar, especially in VP9 (mzso, watch something hard to compress on youtube, like fast moving gameplay footage, or something with a lot of foliage, you'll see). It's much more subtle in AV1, but still noticeable in some cases.
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Old 31st July 2018, 04:33   #813  |  Link
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Oh? What is that?
ARM64 is a darling in some circles, but it's hardly perfect, and it's even more segmented than the x64 market. You can't get AVC on some x64, but you can't be guaranteed NEON at all (which is like saying you can't get MMX/SSE) on some ARM64. That market is weird. It's also having serious scale-up issues, like everyone else who tries to make silicon go fast.

Xeon Phi has its diehards, but the SPARC route of lots of intermediate-powered chips hasn't set the world on fire. Intel appears to be abandoning the Knights platform, and moving toward doing things with superfast flash (Optane) mixed into a mesh of micro-CPUs. We'll see if that pans out any better.

And then, of course, there's GPU. There are people out there who want to ditch the CPU entirely for the GPU, or at least give it an even larger role than it already grabs in today's computing. There's a metric buttload of research on this, everything from new languages to on-the-fly recompiling x86 code into shaders that can run massively parallel, but the current hybrid solution is the current solution for a reason. It works, it's cheap, and it's accessible. Vulcan, OpenCL, and CUDA have proven to be powerful glue languages that specialize in what they can do very well, and fall over when asked to compute loops with side effects. Toss in a chip to do that processing faster, and hey, you have an underpowered CPU in the middle of your GPU! Like fixed-function video decoders, though, the case may be that such a thing could evolve and slowly push out the overkill system CPU, absorbing the CPU into the GPU instead of vice versa (or most likely, both in parallel). It doesn't take a genius to understand that if SIMD width keeps doubling, you're basically starting to process textures. As long as gamers and coin miners keep buying wildly overpowered GPUs for overspecced monitors, though, the state of the art will keep being advanced.

Oh, and quantum computing. Google's Bristlecone set a fire in the breasts of many a nerd, but we're probably almost a decade off from getting any derivative in an average joe's hand, even by cloud computing. Researchers are going to be grappling with what the hell to do with these for decades. Some brilliant folks are going to have their name immortalized in the coming years, but quantum has only just graduated from "nuclear fusion" territory.
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Old 31st July 2018, 04:47   #814  |  Link
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I believe someone explained before that the golden frame was kept consciously, and that it's no is not only not a disadvantage, but on the contrary it allows to do some stuff that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Golden frames are technically superior to ref-frames in every way. It's just that no one's actually taken advantage of that superiority, just like as far as I know no one has taken advantage of long-refs in HEVC to minimize the impact of scenecuts, especially repeated scenecuts. The reduced refs HEVC gives you does take some of that flexibility away though.
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Old 31st July 2018, 15:44   #815  |  Link
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New upload:

AOM v1.0.0-262-gbc484c485
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Old 1st August 2018, 01:01   #816  |  Link
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rav1e is just on early stage of development
https://twitter.com/fg118942/status/1022425990276952064
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Old 1st August 2018, 01:50   #817  |  Link
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rav1e is just on early stage of development
It is. It's not even compatible with the final AV1 spec yet (getting close). And some encoding tools are not implemented or optimized for quality yet.

The encoder will be immediately interesting for its speed. The quality will (hopefully) come later. And by quality, I mean subjective quality.
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Old 1st August 2018, 10:02   #818  |  Link
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I'm trill by this new video codec (AV1), but also with the image (av1-avif) brought by the same Alliance.
This AVIF image codec it's better that WebP.

You can compare the image AV1-AVIF with other formats here. (Select the AV1-2018 version)
You can also compare the video AV1 with other formats here.

It's very good that it begins new implementation of AV1, but how an encoder (rav1e) can make this statement?
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The fastest and safest AV1 encoder.
If it's on early stage, is experimental, and not caught up with the release version.

About the AV1 roadmap
We just complete phase 1.
In 1 year we complete phase 2.
In 2 to 3 years we complete phase 3.
In 4 to 5 years we complete phase 4.

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Old 1st August 2018, 10:16   #819  |  Link
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Its safe because its written in Rust, which has fundamental type and memory safety built-in.
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Old 1st August 2018, 21:18   #820  |  Link
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ROCm is actually something different from HSA/hUMA as you can see that it also lists "Carrizo" APUs as 'Not Supported' even though Carrizo was in fact the first APU with full HSA/hUMA support (AMD would advertise Kaveri, the gen before, as only having "HSA features").

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-discloses-architecture-2015feb23.aspx
The additional transistor budget also allows Carrizo to become the first processor in the industry designed to be compliant with the HSA 1.0 specification developed by the HSA Foundation.

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We finally have a decent alternative to Intel x86.
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Oh? What is that?
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ARM64 is a darling in some circles...And then, of course, there's GPU.
I'd just like to point out that all Ryzen processors support AVX2, and this even includes the lowly Ryzen 3 2200U and Ryzen Embedded V1000 (both of which are 2core/4thread parts much like their Pentium equivalents). I'm not sure how much Doom9-ers keep up with PC hardware news, but Intel has made a major fumble with their 10nm node which has left the door wide open for AMD's Zen2 + 7nm architecture to quite possibly clean house next year.

And of course, most of the lower core-count Ryzen parts (4c/8t and less) also have a relatively powerful iGPU as well (there's only a few 4core Ryzen parts that lack an iGPU, and they're all on desktop anyway).



Also, technically this isn't a "finally" as AMD was very competitive with Intel in the first half of the 2000s (Athlon XP to Athlon 64 x2) as well as with the late 2000's Phenom II parts (particularly the Phenom II x6). It's only been since 2011 with Intel's release of Sandy Bridge and AMD's "Faildozer" that Intel became so absolutely dominant in the CPU space.

...unless you were talking about the ISA of x86, in which case you can largely ignore everything I just said. :P It is worth pointing out though that 64bit x86 (that is, "x86-64") is actually an AMD creation and therefore both Intel and AMD cross-license with each-other.

But in other non-x86 related news, both AMD and Nvidia not only make ARM CPUs but are also part of the RISC-V Foundation.

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