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Old 24th March 2018, 11:52   #49781  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatKnight View Post
I've been doing further testing and managed to capture better screenshots (download and present them at 1:1 resolution) to exemplify my findings:

NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 10 bit) BANDING
NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 8 bit) NO BANDING
OS HDR enabled at Windows 10 (output 10 bit) NO BANDING (no screenshot available, too bright)

I've also noticed that with OS HDR disabled, and sending the metadata at madVR (NV HDR), the OSD only shows D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit) when MPC-HC's seek bar isn't showing, otherwise it shows (8 bit). Keeps alternating from (10 bit) to (8 bit) when the mouse cursor moves down to the seek bar, for example.

But when with the HDR toggle enabled at the Win 10 display settings and madVR no sending metadata to the display (OS HDR), the OSD always shows D3D11 fullscreen windowed (10 bit), even when you move the cursor to the seek bar, or exits fullscreen. It ALWAYS shows (10 bit) at the OSD.

And, at last, D3D11's fullscreen exclusive always shows D3D11 exclusive (10 bit) and has NO BANDING.

So, to conclude, D3D11 exclusive NV HDR = Win10 OS HDR (both banding free)

Hope this helps further understanding why Windows' HDR toggle results in perfect picture without banding, and madVR sending the metadata to the display (NV HDR) on windowed mode doesn't.
Odd again my end. I always use D3D11 FSE, and I see differences in tone mapping and clarity etc with the OS HDR trigger.

K

Update - I have narrowed the settings down that show the differences using the OS HDR toggle. Using Dsplayer Kodi (last build), if I set to use Full Screen in system settings, and set MadVR to either windowed or FSE, it looks the same as using the OS HDR toggle off and use MadVr to send metadata. However, if I set use FullScreen window in Dsplayer, and set Madvr to FSE, using the OS HDR toggle, Madvr OSD reports Windowed mode, and I get vastly improved clarity and tone mapping.

Perhaps if anyone else if using Kodi, they could validate my observations?

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 24th March 2018 at 12:39.
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Old 24th March 2018, 11:54   #49782  |  Link
huhn
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an EDID has nothing todo with luck...
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-monitor-edids
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Old 24th March 2018, 11:59   #49783  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
an EDID has nothing todo with luck...
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...-monitor-edids
I know what an EDID is. I'm only saying this because Nev suggested that simply not reporting 12bits ability in the EDID would make the 10bits option appear in the NV CP. I assume he has tested this with other displays and that it worked.

I tested this with mine and it doesn't.

So instead of saying that Nev's suggestion doesn't work, I'm saying that there must be an element of luck that makes it work with some displays and not others.
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Old 24th March 2018, 12:18   #49784  |  Link
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Old 24th March 2018, 13:52   #49785  |  Link
huhn
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he never said he uses an edid override. he just uses a screen with no 12 bit support. and why would you trust an external device to do such a thing.

a blind guess a displayport device. that can do 60Hz UHD 10 bit since ages.

the part of the edid with a bit deep information should be block 167.
my windows 10 doesn't care about the extend edid block so i couldn't bring it to override this block yet and it'S a freaking pain to do it "by hand" in windows 10...

167 is this block:
Code:
00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 34 A9 96 A2 01 01 01 01
00 19 01 03 80 80 48 78 0A DA FF A3 58 4A A2 29
17 49 4B 20 08 00 31 40 61 40 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 08 E8 00 30 F2 70 5A 80 B0 58
8A 00 BA 88 21 00 00 1E 02 3A 80 18 71 38 2D 40
58 2C 45 00 BA 88 21 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FC 00 50
61 6E 61 73 6F 6E 69 63 2D 54 56 0A 00 00 00 FD
00 17 3D 0F 88 3C 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 21

02 03 4D F0 57 10 1F 05 14 20 21 22 04 13 03 12
07 16 5D 5E 5F 62 63 64 61 60 66 65 23 09 07 01
78 03 0C 00 10 00 38 3C 2F C8 8A 01 02 03 04 81
41 01 9C 06 16 08 00 18 00 67 D8 5D C4 01 78 80
03 E2 00 4B E3 05 1F 01 E4 0F 00 00 78 56 5E 00
A0 A0 A0 29 50 30 20 35 00 BA 88 21 00 00 1A 66
21 56 AA 51 00 1E 30 46 8F 33 00 BA 88 21 00 00
1E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 85
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Old 24th March 2018, 14:03   #49786  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
my windows 10 doesn't care about the extend edid block so i couldn't bring it to override this block yet and it'S a freaking pain to do it "by hand" in windows 10...
Just use CRU, disabling 12-bit is just a checkbox there, and it updates the EDID in the Windows registry for you.
If this works to make NVIDIA offer a 10-bit mode depends on a few unknown factors apparently. But then I don't really have a use for it because my Sony TV supports 12-bit input properly.
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Old 24th March 2018, 15:00   #49787  |  Link
huhn
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after giving up on it and reset everything.

i can now select 10 bit for 422.
420 is still limited to 12 bit and RGB too.

makes totally sense to me obviously. i broke something so whatever.
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Old 24th March 2018, 15:05   #49788  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
On my computer display, I can't see a difference, but I believe you. Sounds like a strange technical bug. Good to know. FSE it is.

It's probably not the tone mapping that is the problem.
I understand it's difficult to see the banding because the screenshots have the colors washed out. But I can assure you it's quite noticeable when displayed with the correct gamut.

D3D11 FSE is a no go for me, because everytime i right click or need to exit fullscreen the display flickers and goes black, and even sometimes goes out of range and I have to unplug and plug back the HDMI cable.
Even though I need to toggle the OS HDR at the display settings before watching an HDR movie, I still find it less anoying. (my opinion)

I'll wait for madshi's input on this. Maybe the NV HDR D3D11 windowed 10 bit's banding it's something that he could work on his side.
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Old 24th March 2018, 15:10   #49789  |  Link
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the is no banding on the image because the image are both dithered to 8 bit that simply how the screenshoot function works.
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Old 24th March 2018, 16:47   #49790  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
Can someone explain to me how to setup a profile to automatically enable 3D when a 3D movie is launched via kodi with MPC-BE as an external player? The MadVR's setting "automatically enable 3D" doesn't work, I must check the box manually prior to watching.

I've seen some people mention that this is possible but could never figure it out. For reference, I use 3D frame packed MKVs.
See this thread. You need to use a batch file to enable 3D in the Nvidia control panel at playback start and end:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=229692
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Old 24th March 2018, 16:48   #49791  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BatKnight View Post
I understand it's difficult to see the banding because the screenshots have the colors washed out. But I can assure you it's quite noticeable when displayed with the correct gamut.

D3D11 FSE is a no go for me, because everytime i right click or need to exit fullscreen the display flickers and goes black, and even sometimes goes out of range and I have to unplug and plug back the HDMI cable.
Even though I need to toggle the OS HDR at the display settings before watching an HDR movie, I still find it less anoying. (my opinion)

I'll wait for madshi's input on this. Maybe the NV HDR D3D11 windowed 10 bit's banding it's something that he could work on his side.
You might be better of using 8-bit dithered until this issue is fixed. Your eyes probably won't notice the difference.
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Old 24th March 2018, 16:49   #49792  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Odd again my end. I always use D3D11 FSE, and I see differences in tone mapping and clarity etc with the OS HDR trigger.

K

Update - I have narrowed the settings down that show the differences using the OS HDR toggle. Using Dsplayer Kodi (last build), if I set to use Full Screen in system settings, and set MadVR to either windowed or FSE, it looks the same as using the OS HDR toggle off and use MadVr to send metadata. However, if I set use FullScreen window in Dsplayer, and set Madvr to FSE, using the OS HDR toggle, Madvr OSD reports Windowed mode, and I get vastly improved clarity and tone mapping.

Perhaps if anyone else if using Kodi, they could validate my observations?
I don't think I understand you. Setting the Kodi GUI to fullscreen windowed vs. true fullscreen changes the image? How? It makes the Nvidia API work or not work? What would the GUI have to do with the video player?
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Old 24th March 2018, 17:17   #49793  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I don't think I understand you. Setting the Kodi GUI to fullscreen windowed vs. true fullscreen changes the image? How? It makes the Nvidia API work or not work? What would the GUI have to do with the video player?
Ok, thought I was pretty clear. Yes, using fullscreen windowed, using the OS HDR toggle with Madvr set to HDR passthrough but not send metadata (and thus bypass the Nvidia API HDR switching) produces a completely different image (for the better).

As to why? good question, hence my post.

I think you are on the Kodi forum, so perhaps you could try, as above, and see if you notice any difference on your setup?

K
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Old 24th March 2018, 17:33   #49794  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
Can someone explain to me how to setup a profile to automatically enable 3D when a 3D movie is launched via kodi with MPC-BE as an external player? The MadVR's setting "automatically enable 3D" doesn't work, I must check the box manually prior to watching.

I've seen some people mention that this is possible but could never figure it out. For reference, I use 3D frame packed MKVs.
I posted the instructions a few pages back. The profile code is there. 3D has to be enabled globally, in display settings of the O/S. This is what madVR enables and disables as needed. It also has to be enabled in the NVidia control panel as needed. When you play an HDR title, stereoscopic is automatically disabled in the NVidia control panel. Next time you go to play 3D, it won't because it's disabled. So, it either has to be manually turned back on in the NVidia control panel or automated. My guide explains how to do this automation by using .bat files. It applies to all players. If you have resolution profiles with this madVR 3D setting, make certain the setting is on and adjusted for all the resolutions in the profile, not just the 3D one. ALL of them.

To add to the 8bit/10bit discussion, don't confuse FSE with windowed fullscreen. Double clicking the player window takes it out of FSE but is not the same thing as windowed fullscreen. This is always going to render 8bit. HDR is fine windowed or FSE. Makes no difference. 4:2:2 has an 10bit selection yes and would be wonderful except it's limited only, not full.

Nothing is going to trigger Windows HDR and advanced color switch on and off as needed. This is why we use madVR with private API's. They do.

In the future, Windows update is promising an HDR calibration tool. I imagine this means the HDR switch in Windows will be able to remain on all the time and allow us to calibrate the desktop to a reasonable usable view while providing calibration for video. I suppose drivers will need to update so that 8bit limit in Windows desktop with HDR will still allow native 10bit of HDR titles.

How any of this will affect using madVR private API's vs Windows on all the time HDR will probably be slight since our recent tests show there is little or no difference between O/S HDR or GPU HDR except currently one is manually turned on and the other is automated. In the future, the automation should be moot if the calibration ability is worth a damn. How madshi will react, if at all, is a mystery but the tests we are doing now should be fuel for his interest as it is ours.

I want to add, going by memory, there is some difference between O/S HDR and GPU HDR. One you might notice: Look in your panels brightness and contrast setting when selecting madVR to use the private API's and pass it through. Then look at the display settings when you use the O/S HDR. This may be why some claim big differences. GPU HDR passing through evokes the display to calibrate. O/S HDR isn't evoking the display to calibrate, rather producing a set look hence why windows desktop looks like junk. Metadata isn't in use. I could be wrong about some or all of this.

MADSHI! WHERE YOU IS?
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Last edited by brazen1; 24th March 2018 at 18:14.
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Old 24th March 2018, 18:16   #49795  |  Link
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Madshi is dead...

EDIT:
He is on another forum... and posted a new test release.
http://madshi.net/madVRhdrTest3.rar

Last edited by foozoor; 24th March 2018 at 22:39.
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Old 24th March 2018, 18:18   #49796  |  Link
brazen1
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Nah. I'm fairly certain, well no, positive he's lurking. And his main perception is: Until moral improves, the beatings will continue.
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Old 24th March 2018, 18:22   #49797  |  Link
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Stop pestering madshi expecting ETAs for new releases or immediate reactions.
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Old 24th March 2018, 18:33   #49798  |  Link
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Lighten up. No one in recent history has made any demands of the sort.
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Old 24th March 2018, 19:56   #49799  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
This is because you measured BT2020, which isn't relevant for 99.99% of current content. Most recent consumer displays cover at least 90% of DCI-P3, which is enough to reproduce well most current content.
No, I measured DCI-P3, of course my TV doesn't do BT.2020. The primaries are not anywhere close to BT.2020's either. Peak Luminescence Target: Relative, ST 2084 HDR (PQ), DCI P3, and D65 in Calman. I have also attached my measured color volumes, viewable with Calman's Color Volume Visualizer.
HDR: Color Volume


SDR (BT.1886): Color Volume



Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Linearity is always important. It's easier to correct linearity with a 3D LUT, but you can still have linearity issues with a 3D LUT depending on the number of points used in the cube etc.
Nothing a 3DLUT can do is going to help a 50% coverage volume but madVR's full resolution 3DLUT really can help non-linear displays look a lot better. Nothing you can do short of getting a new display actually fixes a badly non-linear display but a 65x65x65 3DLUT can be a big improvement. Argyllcms can even do a full 256x256x256 3DLUT, but I have never had that improve anything. I actually haven't used Calman with any significantly non-linear displays but I am sure it would help too.

I said linearity was less important, not that linearity was unimportant.
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Old 24th March 2018, 21:54   #49800  |  Link
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I have a nvidia gfx card, LG OLED and am using madVR to pass through HDR to the display and seems to be working properly

BUT

normally I have the PC input assigned as a PC on the television.

Changing this input to "home theatre" or anything else changes the colour tone of HDR content dramatically.

eg on "home theatre" Mad Max is very orange but leaving it on PC makes it more normal looking - not washed out or faded, just normal

Which is the right setting?
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