madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[CruNcher]

@madshi

So as a result, chroma quality is very slightly lower when using DXVA2 native decoding. That's one of the reasons why nevcairiel and I implemented the new D3D11 decoder - but sadly the benefits only work on Windows 8+.

so slightly higher chroma quality fully accelerated under windows 8 by default not only your and nevs shaders ?

what is the difference you measured ?

Microsoft had this already with Windows Media Player for Windows 8 implemented since the beginning part of the new Media Foundation ?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

so slightly higher chroma quality fully accelerated under windows 8 by default not only your and nevs shaders ?

Default is still whatever decoder LAV uses by default. Not sure which that is, but I don't think it's D3D11 yet at this point. madVR is still missing some features when using native D3D11 decoding, like DXVA/D3D11 deinterlacing + scaling. So it's still a work in progress. Not sure what you mean with "only your and nevs shaders"?

Originally Posted by CruNcher

what is the difference you measured ?

Difference in what? Chroma quality? That depends on the GPU (drivers) and is not really "measurable". Speed should be similar to native DXVA2, maybe even a tiny bit faster (not sure).

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Microsoft had this already with Windows Media Player for Windows 8 implemented since the beginning ?

I don't know. Maybe, but obviously Windows Media Player doesn't have any of madVR's high quality chroma and luma scaling algorithms, so having a higher chroma quality to start with probably didn't really bring much benefit for Windows Media Player users.

I rather think. though, that Windows Media Player probably asks D3D11/DXVA to directly convert the video to RGB, in which case you get chroma upscaling quality depending on GPU drivers, and no access to any custom scaling algorithms. In that case accessing luma and chroma channels separately probably was never used by Windows Media Player.

[Jasch]

[QUOTE=madshi;1818726
Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, and then re-enter the necessary settings like 10bit display bitdepth and D3D11 presentation? I'm asking because you have some somewhat unusual settings, like D3D11 presentation, but without the "present a frame for every VSync" option active, and with "present frames in advance" unchecked.

Also, have you tried FSE mode?

Which media player are you using? And you didn't remove the "amd_ags_???.dll" files, did you?

Your AVR only reporting 8bit even though the madVR reads 10bit is an ominous sign. It should really be 10bit.

[/QUOTE]

Thx for the reply.

I have tried reset default, new windows install...
(madvr version 92.1 .2 .3)

"present a frame for every VSync" (i was thinking a while back someone stated, this must be off for HDR)
on and off makes no difference

"present frames in advance" unchecked.(i had this off all wayback, to gain faster zapping times in DVBViewer)
testet with on and off makes no difference.

FSE on or off no diff.

HDR let Madvr decide or pass. no diff.

I am using DVBViewer latest Version.

i did not remove those files amd_ags_???.dll, both are in the madvr folder.(should i ?)

One thing i was see, when i manual put 10bit Desktop,
normal 1080/720 is output 10bit(AVR report BT2020, Colors are borked)
when i start now 4K/23Hz HDR BT2020 File, its now 10bit 2020 but no HDR.
if i switch to 4k/50HZ BT709 TV stream -> its 4k50Hz 8bit.(osd says still 10, but AVR now says 8bit).

i have also try´d now without AVRm direct to TV but still the same no HDR.


Another Question, over testing i was seeing Travel 4K Channel on Astra who is HLG Testchanel (4K 50Hz BT2020, HLG) i guess there is no support for now. OSD did not show a sign of HDR.


If you need me something to test, just let me know.

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by Jasch

For me, deinterlacing is working if i use DX11 CB.
In LAV use DXVA11 and choose you GPU -> CB
Automatic -> native

Yes, I meant Native D3D11 deinterlacing.
At least on NVIDIA, I think D3D11 deinterlacing should be of better quality than DXVA2, because DXVA Checker reports it uses more past and future frames to analyse the interlacing with D3D11VA, so we might possibly get better quality with Native D3D11 deinterlacing when it's implemented.

Originally Posted by madshi

I've been working with one of the MediaPortal devs on this. I think this will probably be fixed in a future MediaPortal version.

Yes I've seen there's been a new test build, thanks!

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by el Filou

At least on NVIDIA, I think D3D11 deinterlacing should be of better quality than DXVA2, because DXVA Checker reports it uses more past and future frames to analyse the interlacing with D3D11VA, so we might possibly get better quality with Native D3D11 deinterlacing when it's implemented.

Judging by renderers who support it already, it still looks worse (aliased) than YADIF to me.

[mrmarioman]

Originally Posted by madshi

Ok, thanks for the added details. I'm still missing some things, though. For several of my suggestions you said "I've already tried that", but you didn't say what the exact result of each of those tries was?

Generally, do you see any difference if you switch madVR's HDR settings back and forth between "let madVR decide" and "passthrough HDR content"? And is there any difference if you toggle between "send HDR metadata to the display" while "passthrough HDR content" is active?

No difference at all between "let madvr decide" and "passthrough hdr".

Yes, if I toggle that option the picture dims or lights up.

I think my problem is that I'm not seeing the Wide Colour Gamut colours -I'm just seeing rec709 colours with hdr.

Just tested a 'Patriot Day' sample, and I'm getting the same problem. Many of the colours that are visible using the TV's own player (via usb) are not visible on PC with mpc-hc+madvr.

I also tried with everything set to 8 bit and no dithering in madvr, didn't make any difference.

[Kotik]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Judging by renderers who support it already, it still looks worse (aliased) than YADIF to me.

Whats the current deinterlacing status on NVIDIA vs AMD? I remember some years ago that AMD hardware deinterlacing was slightly better than NVIDIA, is it still the case?

[oddball]

Originally Posted by austinminton

Thanks madshi for the new release. HDR in FSE is working again. I had skipped 0.92.2 because of this problem. Now that I have the latest release, i finally tried custom resolution. Works well, frpm one frame dropped every 12 mins to a drop once in 1.29 days!

Only problem now is that I don't get the OSD from my avr on the custom resolutions. Guessing its because the new resolution is not exactly 23/24p?

I am guessing you are an Nvidia owner. I have yet to hear of anyone with an AMD GPU getting HDR working correctly in FSE nor auto switching to HDR when HDR is set to off in display settings.

[oddball]

Originally Posted by madshi

Could you please create another debug log for this situation, and ideally also a freeze report (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Pause/Break)?


Have you tried resetting madVR to default settings, and then re-enter the necessary settings like 10bit display bitdepth and D3D11 presentation? I'm asking because you have some somewhat unusual settings, like D3D11 presentation, but without the "present a frame for every VSync" option active, and with "present frames in advance" unchecked.

Also, have you tried FSE mode?

Which media player are you using? And you didn't remove the "amd_ags_???.dll" files, did you?

Your AVR only reporting 8bit even though the madVR reads 10bit is an ominous sign. It should really be 10bit.


See also my reply directly above this one.

Washed out colors is with HDR switched on or off in the win10 display settings? If on, then it's a GPU driver or OS problem, nothing I can do about it.


Is this once again with HDR turned on or off in the OS display settings? All hell will break lose if you enable that option, which is why I very strongly advice not to use it. The OS and drivers are terrible with that option turned on, nothing works correctly that way, in my experience. Not my fault. Please don't report bugs when the OS HDR switch is turned on. For now all problems with that configuration are very likely either OS or GPU driver issues, so I won't even try to look into it. Sorry. But Microsoft and the GPU manufacturers need to get their act together first to make the OS HDR option viable. For now the only thing we can do is to use the private AMD + Nvidia HDR APIs, which work much better, in my experience.


Weird. Yeah, I guess your AVR doesn't like the custom modes. Thankfully it at least seems to pass it through properly!


All those settings changes are while the media player is still running, you didn't stop and restart it at any time between those steps you're rporting, is that correct?


Ok, thanks for the added details. I'm still missing some things, though. For several of my suggestions you said "I've already tried that", but you didn't say what the exact result of each of those tries was?

Generally, do you see any difference if you switch madVR's HDR settings back and forth between "let madVR decide" and "passthrough HDR content"? And is there any difference if you toggle between "send HDR metadata to the display" while "passthrough HDR content" is active?

Doesn't work. Nevever worked. Cleared out MadVR several times. Been through a few driver updates and now a change of GPU (RX 480 to RX Vega 56). Still the same issue. Private AMD does not work to auto switch to HDR. It just plays HDR converted to fake HDR colors when HDR is switched off in Win10 display settings. I don't have HDR switched on by default. If I switch HDR on then HDR works but ONLY with FSE unticked. If FSE is ticked I get washed out colors. I have yet to see an AMD GPU owner state that HDR is correctly switching with HDR turned off in Win10 settings and FSE ticked. But please do chime in if anyone has.

To get correct color output (with HDR switched off in Win10 display settings) I either have to set 8 bit in AMD Relive, MAdVR or just set MadVR to Rec 2020 colorspace.

I wish you had a recent AMD GPU and HDR UHD TV to play around with so you could see what is happening.

[oddball]

Originally Posted by mrmarioman

No difference at all between "let madvr decide" and "passthrough hdr".

Yes, if I toggle that option the picture dims or lights up.

I think my problem is that I'm not seeing the Wide Colour Gamut colours -I'm just seeing rec709 colours with hdr.

Just tested a 'Patriot Day' sample, and I'm getting the same problem. Many of the colours that are visible using the TV's own player (via usb) are not visible on PC with mpc-hc+madvr.

I also tried with everything set to 8 bit and no dithering in madvr, didn't make any difference.

Try with fullscreen exclusive unticked it's the only way I could get it to display HDR. On the RX 480 I had to click on the MadVR icon though to get it working otherwise the colors were washed out. On my new RX Vega I don't need to do that and in fact if I click the MadVR icon the colors instead go psykadelic!

[jkauff]

Originally Posted by madshi

Are you sure that the media player is really totally closed? Maybe it's still lurking in the background as a zombie process?

You're right, the players I use (MPC-BE, MPC-HC, JRiver MC) don't completely close. I had tried a workaround, adding the default 1080p71 mode to the list madVR can use, but it didn't work. Turns out madVR calls this rate 71, as does Windows, but Nvidia calls it 72. Once I added 1080p72, mode switching works fine. Doesn't solve the original problem, but I'm getting what I want.

Another totally different problem: madVR never manages to optimize my custom rates. I follow the instructions, play a video at that resolution for 30 minutes or more, but when I click Optimize again I get the original popup, never the analysis results popup. I'm using a native driver for the monitor, using a GTX 1060 with the latest driver. EDID is read with no problem.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by Kotik

Whats the current deinterlacing status on NVIDIA vs AMD? I remember some years ago that AMD hardware deinterlacing was slightly better than NVIDIA, is it still the case?

I couldn't see difference between cuvid and quicksync in motion, so I'd be surprised if AMD was really better.
Maybe there are differences and I can't just see them with my limited samples. However, even with a few videos, the advantage of YADIF seems uncatchable.

[Kotik]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I couldn't see difference between cuvid and quicksync in motion, so I'd be surprised if AMD was really better.
Maybe there are differences and I can't just see them with my limited samples. However, even with a few videos, the advantage of YADIF seems uncatchable.

There was a test sample lurking somewhere on avs forums some years ago, it had moving text + stacked up lines all over the place. I remember running it to compare my SkyLake iGPU vs AMD deinterlacers, AMD had better results.
I am not sure if this test video should be taken seriously when comparing and in any case i never had an NVidia card to run the test there.
Is it possible to double the frames with YADIF? Hardware deinterlacers always double the output.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Kotik

There was a test sample lurking somewhere on avs forums some years ago, it had moving text + stacked up lines all over the place. I remember running it to compare my SkyLake iGPU vs AMD deinterlacers, AMD had better results.
I am not sure if this test video should be taken seriously when comparing

That particular video had one purpose - identifying which GPU algorithm was actually in use on AMD, because AMD screwed their options up so much back then that you could never tell.

Its otherwise quite far from reality for actual content.

[aufkrawall]

YADIF allows to choose between film and video mode (LAV Filters offer this).

YADIF:


DXVA2 Nvidia:


It's frame 480/960 of the H.264 interlaced sample offered by the Kodi page (I however reencoded it as interlaced because the original sample doesn't meet hardware decoding specs).
YADIF isn't perfect here either, but that aliasing of GPU deinterlacing is just devilish...

[Kotik]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

YADIF allows to choose between film and video mode (LAV Filters offer this).

Yep noticed it, thanx.

The difference on your sample is huge indeed. I wonder how AMD performs on this sample, could you upload it somewhere so I can run it through here.

[aufkrawall]

Here it is:
http://www29.zippyshare.com/v/ldGtNBxW/file.html

[Kotik]

This is with AMD, clearly better than NVidia.

[aufkrawall]

Seems it looks much better. But could you try getting the exact same frame? It should work by jumping to frame 480 or 960 in MPC HC.

[austinminton]

I tried the new D3D11 decoder on LAV (0.72.2.74). On a perfectly running setup of DXVA2 copyback, just changed it to D3D11 and left hardware device at automatic. MPC-HC (1.7.13-x64) now launches and madvr resolution change kicks in, but the video doesn't play at all. Just stays paused. Ctrl-J doesn't work. Even if I go into windowed from FSE, it stays paused and doesn't play. What am I missing please?

Windows 10 pro (x64) creators update, nvidia 1080 (385.41)