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Old 8th January 2017, 18:37   #41941  |  Link
Bandits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Maybe deinterlacing activates for the DVD and you have "use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing DXVA deinterlacing" enabled. It is enabled by default.
Thanks, this was the issue. LAV video decoder is set to deinterlacing mode (auto) and it seems all the DVD's I was trying had a small clip that was indeed interlaced but the actual movie was not. In conjunction with the madVR tradeoff settings caused DXVA to enable on chroma making chroma upscaling appear twice in ctrl+j.
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Old 8th January 2017, 19:40   #41942  |  Link
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Hey guys,

just wanted to let you know that I'm a bit busy right now, so I didn't get around answering all your comments & questions yet. Might get to that next weekend.

For now I just want to release a new build, so you have something new to play with.
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Old 8th January 2017, 19:45   #41943  |  Link
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madVR v0.91.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added direct 4x NGU upscalers
This is a first test build with the direct 4x NGU upscalers. Nothing else has changed.

The main benefit of the direct 4x upscalers should be an improved "quality per watt". In this build the direct 4x upscalers become active only if chroma doubling quality is set to "normal". I've done this intentionally so that you can easily compare the 4x algorithm to running 2x twice, which is still done when using "high" or "very high" chroma doubling quality.

For those of you who upscale low quality SD videos, it might be worth checking if the direct 4x upscalers work better than doubling twice. There might be a small quality improvement for you. But ultimately, I'm planning some other improvements for you guys.

(I'm planning to improve the settings dialog in the next build.)
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Old 8th January 2017, 21:12   #41944  |  Link
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For those of you who upscale low quality SD videos, it might be worth checking if the direct 4x upscalers work better than doubling twice. There might be a small quality improvement for you.
Some low-res videos after NGU doubling twice looks insanely sharp, 4x is better in that case.
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But ultimately, I'm planning some other improvements for you guys.
Really glad to hear that! Huge thanks for your work.
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Old 8th January 2017, 21:12   #41945  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.91.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added direct 4x NGU upscalers
This is a first test build with the direct 4x NGU upscalers. Nothing else has changed.

The main benefit of the direct 4x upscalers should be an improved "quality per watt". In this build the direct 4x upscalers become active only if chroma doubling quality is set to "normal". I've done this intentionally so that you can easily compare the 4x algorithm to running 2x twice, which is still done when using "high" or "very high" chroma doubling quality.

For those of you who upscale low quality SD videos, it might be worth checking if the direct 4x upscalers work better than doubling twice. There might be a small quality improvement for you. But ultimately, I'm planning some other improvements for you guys.

(I'm planning to improve the settings dialog in the next build.)
The 4x algorithm is unfortunately too soft compared to the 2x2x method, but I guess some users will like it because of this (for instance for low quality SD videos like you said)
I can run NGU high 4x with my GTX 970 (I can't run NGU high 2x2x), but I don't like the result, because I like very sharp images.

NGU high (former medium) was already softened in v0.91.2, and what I liked best with NGU originally was its very strong and clean sharpen.
While testing, I have found the absolute best result for me to be NGU veryHigh (former High) 2x2x in v0.91.1, but I need to change my graphic card to run it

I still hope I will be able to use Lanczos3 AR for chroma doubling in next versions (instead of Bicubic60 AR), disable image quadrupling (but still be able to activate 2x supersampling) and that NGU high (former medium) will retrieve its original sharpness (or at least have an option to choose the sharpness, like other algorithms).


Last edited by Neo-XP; 8th January 2017 at 22:37.
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Old 8th January 2017, 21:47   #41946  |  Link
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720x400@23 -> 1920x1080 NGU quadrupling:
v0.91.4 very-high + high ~30ms
v0.91.5 very-high direct 4x ~23ms
Nice improvement!
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Old 8th January 2017, 22:12   #41947  |  Link
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Well here is my experience with the 4x, image quality wise high4x looks as if running high2x + high2x instead of high2x + med2x. Power wise similar barely noticeable, would have to run some long averages to give you a precise number of watts saved reported by the GPU.
So I would say 4x looks "better" and could consume less power.
On the other hand I have to agree that soft DVD sources do need a bit of edge presharpen so that NGU can do a clean edge instead of trying to "vectorize" the thin soft edge gradient with a "single color" vector area, this happens more with the higher quality settings on some samples. With a sharp 4k recording downscaled to DVD resolution it wouldn't be an issue but these older DVDs mastered from film are often soft, if not then they are ruined to hell with a global sharpener and halos by who ever was attempting to convert the film to DVD.

It would be nice to have a variable in the GUI that would change how sensitive NGU is to these soft edges so that one can dial it in.
Will see later when the other improvements are released if it's needed.
Overall I do postedge sharpen and thin edges as before without NGU, looks better to me. Sure NGU is sharper but I guess as other have experienced previous versions, it was even more sharp before and these postprocess filters wouldn't be needed.

I don't mind the conservative approach so far in madVR to default settings, it works reasonably well but sometimes it could be tweakable.
Especially considering NGU, NNEDI, XBR are often used on low quality low resolution sources as doing 2-4x on an HD-FHD source there is really not much visual difference at that level of source detail and the size of target display.

Last edited by JackCY; 8th January 2017 at 22:16.
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Old 8th January 2017, 23:08   #41948  |  Link
70MM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For those of you who upscale low quality SD videos, ultimately, I'm planning some other improvements for you guys.
Thank you madshi for work in this area as I use alot of low quality material along with BD 1080. Already I see my 480/576 material look way better than using my Oppos, if we can get more out of it I will be over the moon!
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Old 8th January 2017, 23:11   #41949  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.91.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added direct 4x NGU upscalers
This is a first test build with the direct 4x NGU upscalers. Nothing else has changed.

The main benefit of the direct 4x upscalers should be an improved "quality per watt". In this build the direct 4x upscalers become active only if chroma doubling quality is set to "normal". I've done this intentionally so that you can easily compare the 4x algorithm to running 2x twice, which is still done when using "high" or "very high" chroma doubling quality.

For those of you who upscale low quality SD videos, it might be worth checking if the direct 4x upscalers work better than doubling twice. There might be a small quality improvement for you. But ultimately, I'm planning some other improvements for you guys.

(I'm planning to improve the settings dialog in the next build.)
Looking forward for the improvements when upscaling from SD!

Sounds like something that might really help us out!
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Old 8th January 2017, 23:26   #41950  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The main benefit of the direct 4x upscalers should be an improved "quality per watt". In this build the direct 4x upscalers become active only if chroma doubling quality is set to "normal". I've done this intentionally so that you can easily compare the 4x algorithm to running 2x twice, which is still done when using "high" or "very high" chroma doubling quality.
ok i can do 720p -> 2160p with these ms
downscaler is bicubic 60 AR.

ngu very high x4 32 ms
chroma is bicubic 60 AR

ngu very high x2 -> ngu high x2 takes 90-110 ms
chroma is NGU low -> bicubic 60 AR

and i'm still on polaris.
the first thing is why am i able to use NGU very high x4 on a RX 480? and how should i compare them when chroma high is using NGU low?

i have to switch madVR versions to do a proper comparison.
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Old 9th January 2017, 00:14   #41951  |  Link
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4X NGU looks great and much better than the previous method of doubling twice, which produced sharp edges.
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Old 9th January 2017, 01:05   #41952  |  Link
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madVR incompatibility

Hello nice people .

I've been fiddling around with 3D for some time, and lately I wanted to get away from PowerDVD and TMT for playing 3D BluRays.

I've taken the time to read some instructions and contacted a friend of mine who also is using alternative players, and after some chatting yesterday we got to a problem that apparently I'm having. So what we both did is:
Installed MPC-HC 1.7.10
Installed LAV filters 0.69
Installed madVR 0.91.4

At his place he has a HDMI 1.4 capable 3D display, and everything started working almost immediately, with no specifics with the settings.

However at my place I'm running a HDMI 1.3 capable 3D display (Panasonic Viera TC-P65VT30) which is working fine with PowerDVD and TMT, but won't work at all with madVR.

I was wondering if madVR supports frame interleave playback instead of frame packed playback, so it somehow could work properly with my display?

Thank you in advance for any advice you give me .
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Old 9th January 2017, 01:45   #41953  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.91.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* added direct 4x NGU upscalers
Wow, I am very impressed by NGU x4 for SD content! Much of the very bad amplification of artifacts I noticed when upscaling 640x480 -> 4K is gone! I would love to see a x3 version, even if it was the same speed and power, for 720p -> 4K.

It still shows artifacts much more than NNEDI3 256 but NNEDI3 is noticeably softer too. NGU x4 requires a very high quality source for SD but with one I like the look more than NNEDI3.

I will probably still use NNEDI3 by default for SD though, most of my SD sources have too much edge noise.

I also want to note your very impressive work on "ShowRenderSteps" in the previous version; rendering seems the same speed as without it and I see some filter passes taking as little as 0.04 ms.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wysiwygbg View Post
I was wondering if madVR supports frame interleave playback instead of frame packed playback, so it somehow could work properly with my display?
In the properties of your display device there is a 3D format section: auto, side-by-side, top-and-bottom, row alternative, column alternative. Also a swap left / right eye option.

No frame interleave.
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:09   #41954  |  Link
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In the properties of your display device there is a 3D format section: auto, side-by-side, top-and-bottom, row alternative, column alternative. Also a swap left / right eye option.

No frame interleave.
Yeah, I've already tried all of the above and none of them work. So is there going to be frame interleave support in the foreseeable future? Does this mean that all TV sets made before 2012, and working with HDMI 1.3, are currently unsupported by madVR for watching 3D?
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Old 9th January 2017, 07:12   #41955  |  Link
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I remember madshi saying there weren't any plans to support frame interleaved 3D. There was a technical issue if I remember correctly?

So yes, all 3D TVs with HDMI 1.3 aren't supported.
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Old 9th January 2017, 10:35   #41956  |  Link
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Quote:
madVR v0.91.5 released
madshi, with chroma doubling set to normal NGU now puts much less strain on my RX 470. Now i can use NGU very high comfortable!
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Old 9th January 2017, 12:11   #41957  |  Link
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I run SR2 with some sources and couldn't understand why it doesn't quadro for me, apparently direct x4 NGU doesn't work if you have superres enabled in refinement.

Besides this little bug(?) it runs way better, I can do very high easily now on SD stuff. what was 18ms at high now 13ms at veryhigh

Can't say if it's softer yet, but what if we have a check box for NGU like with SSIM relaxed-strict(soft) because as this forum shows there is two distinct camps that like soft and sharp images and do not understand each other at all.
I'm in sharp camp, and option like that would be nice.
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Old 9th January 2017, 12:59   #41958  |  Link
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... if madVR supports frame interleave playback instead of frame packed playback, ...
I think it is better to say 3D frame sequential mode -
(sending alternating left and right eye image frames) - which is the known name in the 3D TV formats (frame sequential, frame packing).

PowerDVD supports this mode not having the option frame sequential but HDMI 1.4, which actually is frame packing.
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Old 9th January 2017, 13:29   #41959  |  Link
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Hi madshi, I have found that if I use NGU very high instead of quadrupling it keeps doubling twice, it works well with medium and high though. Using low just reports NGU low (without 4x) but it may be an OSD trouble. But I am sure that very high quadrupling it is not working well in my case because it is sharper than quadrupling with high. Thanks for this release, quadrupling looks great with SD content. Also please don't forget to add LL to OSD and adding an option to prevent auto quadrupling. Thank in advance for your hard work.
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Old 9th January 2017, 15:21   #41960  |  Link
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Is it normal to have multiple madHcCtrl.exe running while playing a video?
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