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3rd December 2016, 10:54 | #41101 | Link |
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Hi! Is there any manual or web where I can find published information of which is each option in the configuration? I'm new using madvr (only 1 year ago) and I want to understand the differences between the changes I make, specifically upscaling.
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3rd December 2016, 14:53 | #41102 | Link | |
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this is also decent starting point if you know absolutely nothing, I'd change a lot of things in that guide but it's good reference point https://imouto.my/tutorials/madvr/ P.S. Quoting seems to work again. |
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3rd December 2016, 15:17 | #41103 | Link | |
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3rd December 2016, 15:18 | #41104 | Link | |
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3rd December 2016, 15:47 | #41105 | Link | ||
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I guess I will have to give up 10 bit support and use D3D11 windowed mode. Having to restart my pc several times a week due to black screen lockup is getting too annoying. Interestingly, present stats are actually lower in windowed mode and Windows screen saver works again when a video is paused. |
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3rd December 2016, 17:27 | #41108 | Link | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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The chroma quality drop down box should become available if you select NGU "high" or "very high" quality levels, though. Quote:
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FWIW, NGU doesn't really intentionally sharpen anything. NGU works by interpreting the source images as a downscaled version of a high-res master, and then NGU simply tries to output a best guess at what the original high-res master might have looked like. This educated guess often ends up looking quite sharp, but there's no artificial sharpening involved. Quote:
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Not much hope to make NGU-Low sharper (or rather more "focused"), unfortunately. It simply lacks the processing power for that. It's possible I might find some minor quality improvements in the future, but don't expect big jumps, unless there's a new breakthrough in the science at some point in the future. Quote:
1) Squeezing all the controls for chroma upscaling, image upscaling, doubling and downscaling after doubling into the "Movie Upscaling" settings page would make the page crazy full of controls and it would shy users away. 2) Having chroma upscaling settings in all 3 pages means a lot of redundant controls. Maybe some users would want to use different chroma upscaling settings for the 3 different situations you mentioned, but many users would not. I think many users are happy using just 1 chroma upscaling algo for all situations. 3) The basic concept of your approach can be covered very nicely and easily by using profiles. Overall I simply don't see this approach as a noticeable improvement over the current approach. Just my own personal opinion, of course. Your approach has some advantages and some disadvantages. So it's simply different, but not better, IMHO. Quote:
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Anyway, atm I'm just trying to do the most pressing changes in the settings dialog. I'd much rather like to work on adding new algorithms atm. There might be a whole settings dialog redesign for version 1.0, or maybe for 1.1. Maybe there will be an "expert view" and a "normal view". I haven't got a clue right now. Totally changing the way the profiles work right now is not a good time for me. It would cost a lot of work, and I might have to change it all again for version 1.0. Quote:
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if (deintFps < 31) and (sourceWidth < 1025) and (sourceHeight < 580) "highQualityAlgos" else "lowQualityAlgos" Bicubic150 was never recommended as an upscaling algo. It's a really really very bad upscaling algo. However, it works great as a downscaling algo. So using an upscaling test which uses Bicubic150 for upscaling doesn't have any meaning for how good or bad Bicubic150 is for downscaling. Quote:
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JFYI, have you tried using "low" quality downscaling? |
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3rd December 2016, 17:29 | #41109 | Link | ||||||||||||||||||
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The main reason why I have changed the "image doubling" settings is that after the initial release of NGU, almost every user tested NGU with bad settings, resulting in much slower performance results than necessary, even though I explained it all in the NGU announcement post. This made it pretty clear to me that only very few users really understood the old logic well enough to use it "correctly". So something had to change. It was very clear to me, and also to the expert users. Quote:
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3rd December 2016, 17:43 | #41110 | Link |
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Ah ok! I didn't have problems on my R9-280X, but the RX 480 is very finnicky. Most stable mode is D3D 11 Windowed, as long as the card doesn't power down if paused when the computer is set to turn the monitor off. Despite what others have said, it resumed and played fine with the R9-280X. If I'm doing encoding in the background sometimes even Windows mode freezes, and a hard reset is required. Mind you I am using Avisynthshader with it, but regardless of that I could run two parallel encodes, madVR, shaders such as enhance detail etc, full screen exclusive DX11, all trade quality for performance settings disabled, smooth motion, error diffusion, NGU scaling etc all enabled and no issues. Absolutely can not do that now! Seems like a compatibility issue.
The hard lockup where you have to reset the computer I believe is because madVR locks the process/handle and it cannot close, which keeps the parent process (the player) in the process list and locked. This could mean the screen is stuck on black, which I get in D3D11 Exclusive, or just the inability to launch the media player in full screen windowed mode again. However, it does play with madVR if not full screen. Since these and other issues are happening to multiple people there's likely a couple of issues somewhere, but seeing as most other people don't have a problem it may not be resolved unfortunately. Maybe it's even trial and error with purchasing different cards until you find one that works (not feasible, both Nvidia and AMD are affected), not use madVR at all, or just put up with it and gradually kill the computer with all the hard resetting :S. I did activate debug mode to make the log file, but it became really large really quickly and may not help at all. At this point since it's mostly working apart from the odd freeze requiring a hard reset I'm not going to fiddle with making log files etc. I guess I'll just have to put up with it or stop using it . Not Madshi's fault, I do suspect it's a compatibility issue relating to Windows 10 and the newer card's API support. Remember Windows 10 TH2, RS1, and soon RS2 all have graphical API changes in relation to additional features etc. It's why DirectX 11 is up to 11.4 in RS2. |
3rd December 2016, 18:22 | #41111 | Link |
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Dear madshi!
You write: "The chroma upscaling algo does currently not make use of the luma channel. I plan to try adding that to a future NGU version, but that will take serious development time, so don't expect it too soon." What about the term - one week, one month or big time ? |
3rd December 2016, 18:30 | #41112 | Link |
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I can't say for sure. Probably more than a month. There's simply so much still left to do with NGU for luma, and luma has priority.
Atm I'm working on direct NGU quadrupling. First results look nice. It seems that direct quadrupling might beat "doubling twice" in both speed and quality. Speed will probably be slower than I had originally hoped for, but still noticeably faster than doubling twice. It will be at least 1 week until I have some quadrupling NGU version to test, though, maybe longer. |
3rd December 2016, 18:39 | #41113 | Link |
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Nope. And I tried in v0.91.1 the same settings that new presets are giving - everything is OK. In v0.91.3, when I switch back and forth between bicubic and NGU low for chroma on the fly while in NGU doubling mode and on pause, the picture immediately switches between a mess and a correct one accordingly.
Last edited by Telion; 3rd December 2016 at 18:45. |
3rd December 2016, 18:39 | #41114 | Link |
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Feedback for NGU watching lores/lowbitrate content:
Iīm watching snooker at the moment with Kodi + MPC HC + madVR. Iīm watching it with BBC iplayer addon and because Iīm living outside UK Iīm using a proxy (-> low bandwidth -> low video quality). BBC video material has a good quality already with low bandwidth, but it is blurry of course. I tested all scaling algorithms, and I have to say: NGU is one of the most noticeable improvements in madVR for me!!! Of course there were other great improvements like the display switcher, dithering, smoothmotion, debanding, profiles and so on, but in regards of scaling NGU tops everything in my opinion. Back to my example: the material I watched had 512x288 resolution and a bitrate of 544kbps (I consider this really low quality). I scaled it to my monitor resolution of 1680x1050. What shall I say? NGU has a new dimension in scaling quality. BTW I can use NGU low up to NGU high with high quality downscaling with my very weak Radeon R7 250, thatīs really high bang for the buck... With low quality scalers the mentioned video material is on the edge being watchable for me; by using NGU itīs absolutely normally watchable without thinking about the bad quality all the time... NGU beats clearly NNEDI (and of course all other scalers) for me when watching this lowres content. NGU low is sufficient sharp, NGU medium is on the edge of being too sharp (or there are artifacts or it looks somehow unnatural), NGU high is worse in this regard compared to medium. So I stay with medium at the moment. I share the opinion that a scaler should produce "the real image" and not add something like sharpening additionally. So NGU low/medium seem to look more natural/unprocessed to me than NGU high. Of course high quality content is another story (havenīt had the time to test that much). NGU is an impressive improvement in scaling to me. Because: I normally go mostly for judderfree playback (-> custom resolution / smoothmotion) and color accuracy (->calibrated monitor and beamer), scaling was for me a thing for microscope nerds using 800% magnifying and watching for single pixels. In normal usage scenarios I often didnīt see differences between several scalers, linear light, debanding, dithering and so on (sometimes I thought I saw something, most of the time it was placebo I think). NGU is a completely other story. I see CLEARLY the difference compared to other scalers, it CLEARLY wins in regards of quality and performance and I didnīt have to use 800% magnified pictures to find out about that. Many thanks to madshi for investing his (free-)time for us videophiles |
3rd December 2016, 19:13 | #41115 | Link |
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Guys don't get angry OK? I tried to find the answer in the last replies but I'm a bit confused: I updated to the last version and I really cannot find "image doubling" settings anymore. Anywhere. Really nothing not even a drop menu or minimum choice. Is it normal?
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3rd December 2016, 19:41 | #41116 | Link | |
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3rd December 2016, 20:49 | #41117 | Link | |
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I switched to windowed D3D11 a few days ago, and just had the same thing happen right now. Had to do a hard reset and reboot. I did still have empty DontRenderAfterStop folder in madVR folder. I removed that and will see if it keeps happening again. |
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3rd December 2016, 21:11 | #41118 | Link | |
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Option 1: It is from version 0.91.1 (Jinc AR) Option 2: It is from version 0.91.3 (Bicubic 60 AR) 3 votes: 2 were right and 1 was wrong. Because almost no one tried the challenge I will not be uploading another. I was really hoping that more people get involved. I wanted to test if the ratio comes closer to 50/50 or not. And also it would have been useful to ask how did you compare the pics (for example if you use 1080p output or 4K), being honest I can't tell the difference between the two from normal view distance in a FHD 32" TV. Last edited by fedpul; 3rd December 2016 at 21:14. |
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3rd December 2016, 21:22 | #41119 | Link | |
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Image analysis by Beyond Compare shows that the changes are so minor that it would be near impossible for anyone to see a difference between them at normal viewing distances. I'd simply prefer the one with the lower render time (option 2) Last edited by ryrynz; 3rd December 2016 at 21:24. |
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3rd December 2016, 21:31 | #41120 | Link | |
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Anyway the what catastrophe has already been quite emotional lately so I'm not keen on giving up on SSIM2D100%LL+50%AB downscaling just yet huh, still rocking 0.91.1 and will be eagerly awaiting the next less crippled build please Last edited by leeperry; 3rd December 2016 at 22:31. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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