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Old 27th November 2016, 17:27   #40781  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma View Post
with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement
Or you know, you could just switch your screen to 24/48/72/96/120Hz. Noone said you absolutely have to watch it at 60.

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Originally Posted by plasma View Post
TVs which accept 120hz input will not exist on the other hand anytime soon, since no content is produced in that frame rate
Actually, they do exist, although its not an extremely common feature.
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Old 27th November 2016, 17:30   #40782  |  Link
XTrojan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma View Post
How is that even true. When watching a 24 fps file on a 60 hz screen it has to use 3:2 pulldown. This leads to alternating frame repeats. One is shown 3 times the other just 2 times

with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement
G-Sync/Freesync multiplies framerates if they are low, if the panel is set to 120Hz and the content is 24hz it will multiply by 5.

24Hz to 60 is not consistent either with G-Sync or Freesync, I don't see how it could be consistent. What Freesync/G-Sync will do is just multiply framerate to minimize judder, there will still most likely be judder.



Up until the game outputs 40frames/s you can see that it's not flawless, after 40Hz it becomes flawless as the frames stop repeating and the dynamic refresh rate kicks in.

Last edited by XTrojan; 27th November 2016 at 17:35.
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Old 27th November 2016, 17:49   #40783  |  Link
leeperry
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G-Sync blabbering again? madshi said he doesn't care for it.

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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I never understood why there is AB for SSIM
Coz it's better to do it at the very last stage? That's my experience anyway.

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Originally Posted by leo91531 View Post
NGU is great
Definitely, luma-only(can't afford it for chroma) medium NGU for 720p@1080p looks wonderful
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Old 27th November 2016, 18:45   #40784  |  Link
Razoola
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This G-sync chat is quite annoying I agree. The point of G-sync is more about stopping screen trearing in games and nothing more. A movie is just not going to look good if frames are not being hit at a set time. The only arguement I can agree with for gsync is that of matchng the videoclock to the audio clock but you can do this well already by simply making custom resolutions.
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Old 27th November 2016, 19:44   #40785  |  Link
ikarad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Any chance to get g-sync working in windowed mode? Gsync officially supports windowed mode applications so it should work with MadVR too.



It is really disappointing to spend $1k on a monitor and not be able to take advantage of this feature.

Note: On my system, Gsync does work in full screen exclusive mode, but only with DX11 disabled under Rendering - General Settings. But it doesn't work for all video files. Strangely it does work for all youtube videos I've tested so far (piped by SVPTube).
gsync can be turn on with madvr in windowed mode and fullscreen mode even if it's useless.
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Old 27th November 2016, 19:49   #40786  |  Link
ikarad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post

There was some excitement in the past about FreeSync being part of new HDMI specs, and one could speculate that it would make sense to support variable sync in HDTVs because game consoles could use it, but despite that, I have never seen an HDTV with variable sync support, nor have I seen any manufacturer interest in it. Maybe after the dust settles around HDR, one could hope…
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...x-one-graphics

"AMD’s Raja Koduri, head of RTG, had this to say: ““We are definitely working with the entire display community on getting FreeSync to more places,” said Koduri. “I think this is something we should follow up…on what we can share at this point on FreeSync TVs.”"
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Old 27th November 2016, 20:03   #40787  |  Link
plasma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XTrojan View Post
G-Sync/Freesync multiplies framerates if they are low, if the panel is set to 120Hz and the content is 24hz it will multiply by 5.

24Hz to 60 is not consistent either with G-Sync or Freesync, I don't see how it could be consistent. What Freesync/G-Sync will do is just multiply framerate to minimize judder, there will still most likely be judder.



Up until the game outputs 40frames/s you can see that it's not flawless, after 40Hz it becomes flawless as the frames stop repeating and the dynamic refresh rate kicks in.
it is 24 (native) to 48 (2x) if the display has a 40-60 refresh rate. Why would it go to 60? And being flawless from more than 40 is all the display needs to do.

You then have AABBCCDDEE frames instead of AAABBCCCDD, which produces judder
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Old 27th November 2016, 20:16   #40788  |  Link
aufkrawall
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There shouldn't be any noticeable stutter below 40fps. I didn't experience that myself with a 144hz Gsync display and PCper explicitly write that Gsyncs always "feels" judder-free (or at least they said this in some video).
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Old 27th November 2016, 20:17   #40789  |  Link
Knight77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
Does anyone recommend me best settings for 2k to 4k upscaling of REMUX mkv files?
Oguignant you can find some answers here: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

The part starting with " Let's repeat this process, this time assuming the display resolution is 3840 x 2160p (4K UHD) "
You can search that in the page and there it starts the part you should check :-)

Now you own me a bottle of Malbec ! ;-)
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Old 27th November 2016, 20:23   #40790  |  Link
Warner306
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Is soften edges necessary at 720p -> 1080p? I am currently recommending it.

I know larger scaling factors are more prone to looking cartoony, but what about 720p -> 1080p? I am using NGU medium quality luma upscaling with SSIM 1D 100% downscaling.
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Old 27th November 2016, 20:24   #40791  |  Link
Knight77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Growdelan View Post
Ok, I turned off SE, and turned on AG 2. I think it work

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191961

In one of the first image comparison posted I could really see the difference: the image was too soft. As noticed by Growdelan in the lips and eyes part was quite clear. So SE really makes images so soft?

Not related question: how many ms are good for rendering time and present time ?
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Old 27th November 2016, 21:20   #40792  |  Link
Backflash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
In one of the first image comparison posted I could really see the difference: the image was too soft. As noticed by Growdelan in the lips and eyes part was quite clear. So SE really makes images so soft?

Not related question: how many ms are good for rendering time and present time ?
Well, NGU makes things way too sharp for 1080 doubling. For 720 I don't think NGU needs SE. Taste option.

any ms that doesn't have dropped frames and you do not feel any jitter
for me it's anything under 35ms
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Old 27th November 2016, 21:37   #40793  |  Link
JarrettH
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Edit: meant to ask in MPC thread

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 02:15.
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:35   #40794  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cork_OS View Post
Since NGU doesn't benefit from SuperRes, is possible/useful to apply SuperRes only to the last upscale step (Jinc/C-R etc.), after NGU?
Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotik View Post
Here is a small sample, notice how the 3D effects of the movie cut through the 3D subtitles, this is happening during the whole movie and it doesn't matter whether I use xySubFilter or the MPC-HC internal sub engine.

Sample was done using latest MakeMKV and then splitting it with latest MKVToolNIX.
Thanks, will have a look at this when I find some time. Not sure when that will be, though.

Might make sense to add a bug entry to the madVR bug tracker, just to be safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
Does "NGU = Jinc" etc. in the OSD mean madvr is reverting to Jinc instead of using NGU (for whatever reason)?
Not enough information. Can't say anything unless I see a screenshot of the OSD, or at least the full scaling related text lines from the OSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
Have you noticed high CPU usage when using NGU? https://i.imgbox.com/CNYlkAXK.png I have i7 5820K so it is ~88% of thread power so not much left here.
Somewhat strange. You're not using the "ShowRenderSteps" empty file hack, are you? Do you use custom flush settings?

And this problem only occurs when using NGU?

Quote:
Originally Posted by austonrush View Post
Here are 4 samples. I've found adding grain to SD content really helps remove the proccessed look. I'm using level 2 in these images.

I'm also NOT using smoothen edges for SD content it is not required. It is required for HD...

Which one looks best to you? I should mention I'm getting a much better render performance with ngu low versus nnedi3 128 with SR3
Don't see too much of a difference, to be honest. These images are really small.

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Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Is that workaround still present?
Yes, and it's impossible that it hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDongerr View Post
My eyes are pretty sensitive to motion judder. Mind you, my projector does 23.976 fps and I am able to playback my content at the proper FPS (i believe it is correct anyway) with 0% clock deviation from player to display. However, my white-whale exists as a video signal that looks like film with the motion smoothness of 60hz/120hz but without that fake-plasticky-SOE. My projector, even at the lowest CMD (clear motion-drive) setting, looks like a mexican soap opera. Even with an Oppo 103D blu-ray player, I still experience the same (if not more) judder than when playing movies from my HTPC -- therefore I sold it.
So you don't like the normal 23.976fps judder, and you don't like the JVC motion smoother, either? That's a problem. I suppose there might be motion smoothers which are better than what the JVC does. But I'm not sure if it's possible to make motion smoother without getting the soap opera look.

I suppose you could try to play with SVP or BlueSky to see if they produce something you like better. SVP has a ton of settings, maybe one of them does what you need?

Or maybe what you need is a selective motion smoother which only smooths camera pans/zooms, but nothing else? I'm not sure if such a thing exists, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leo91531 View Post
test @GTX1080 & RX480

I think NGU is like NNEDI3+SR ,but NGU rendering time is less than NNEDI3+SR
Good comparison, I like that you're not using chroma doubling. It shows that you know what you're doing...
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:52   #40795  |  Link
madshi
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For those of you interested in FreeSync/G-SYNC:

I've changed the 2nd post of this thread to a FAQ. The first FAQ is now the FreeSync/G-SYNC topic.
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Old 27th November 2016, 23:53   #40796  |  Link
Warner306
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Nevermind, everything has changed. Will report back after testing.

Last edited by Warner306; 28th November 2016 at 00:24.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:06   #40797  |  Link
madshi
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madVR v0.91.2 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* renamed NGU quality levels: Low -> Med, Med -> High, High -> VeryHigh
* added a new even faster NGU "Low" variant
* reworked chroma/image up/downscaling/doubling settings pages
* removed NEDI and super-xbr image doubling algorithms
* small speed improvement for NGU-Med (former NGU-Low)
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)
* settings dialog warns when SuperRes and NGU are enabled at the same time
* pixel shader database is compressed now to save space
I've changed the whole scaling settings logic to make things easier to understand, and to protect "normal" users from chosing bad configurations. I'm not sure if the power users will like the changes or not. Please give it a try and let me know what you think. I'm willing to consider alternatives/changes/extensions. But it's important that "normal" users are guided by the settings dialog in such a way that they choose good settings.

I've dropped super-xbr for image doubling because the new "NGU-Low" is now faster (at least for me) than super-xbr, even without SuperRes. So the only 2 remaining resolution doublers are now NGU and NNEDI3. FYI, when doing an exact 2x upscale, NGU-Low is now also faster than JincAR (without SuperRes)!

super-xbr is still available for chroma upscaling, though.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:27   #40798  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.
sorry i don't see that working for DVDs.

edit: and very common 4/3 AR 16/9 broadcast shouldn't work too.

Last edited by huhn; 28th November 2016 at 00:29.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:27   #40799  |  Link
pose
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madshi, what NNEDI3 value NGU med supposed to compete with quality and performance wise?

Last edited by pose; 28th November 2016 at 00:32.
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Old 28th November 2016, 00:32   #40800  |  Link
huhn
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it was
NGU very high below nnedi3 64
NGU high below nnedi3 32
NGU mid below nnedi 16

doesn't count for polaris GPUs.
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