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22nd November 2016, 19:08 | #40583 | Link |
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I have, for animated content, the increased sharpness is pretty noticeable (bicubic 150 downscaling).
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22nd November 2016, 19:26 | #40584 | Link |
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Even NGU low is better for sharpness than jinc on 1080p->1440p, unless you crank SR for Jinc. High SR adds quite a bit of aliasing too.
@ Asmodian: I'm getting even better results with SSIM compared to bicubic 150. This could be entirely placebo on my part, however. As for NGU on chroma, it is very sharp, which is fine (and desirable) on clean sources. If your sources have severe artifacts, which many rips will in the chroma channel, NGU will strongly emphasize them. Blocking becomes very obvious whenever it's present, whereas other scalers like reconsoft are able to hide most of it. Also, I've changed my mind about reconsoft vs bilateralsoftSR2; the former results in fewer artifacts and less flatness at the cost of slightly less sharp "pure chroma" elements like logos. |
22nd November 2016, 19:47 | #40585 | Link | ||||||||||||||
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NGU already contains some amount of deringing, so you may not have to use the separate deringing algorithm in "artifact removal". Also, the separate deringing algo might make life harder for NGU, so image quality might even be better in many cases with it disabled. However, there's a chance that with some sources the separate filter might do a better job at removing ringing that NGU. So I can't give a final recommendation here. Image enhancements and most upscaling refinements are not needed with NGU, unless you have a very soft source, maybe. The new "soften edges" and "add grain" options might be useful, if you like what they do. Settings in chroma upscaling and image downscaling are not specific to NGU. Quote:
I think noise or compression artifact reduction has a better chance at making good use of past/future frames than upscaling. Quote:
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You can usually trust the madshi's eyes... Quote:
It's quite possible that the SuperRes AB filter would now suddenly be useful, given that SuperRes now adds some bloating to NGU, which it never did before. But you know that I don't like activating SuperRes with NGU at all, so I'm not going to re-add SuperRes AB, if the only thing it would help is a situation that I don't recommend, anyway. Quote:
E.g. what I'm looking at for next weekend is another quality step below NGU Low, which is again noticeably faster. I'm not sure it will work out ok, maybe quality will be too low to be useful, we'll see. Might be an option. Or just "NGU" with a separate quality slider. I'm considering to change the whole upscaling/doubling settings page logic (to make things simpler), so I don't know yet what I'll end up doing. |
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22nd November 2016, 20:24 | #40589 | Link |
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Speaking of NGU - my compliments:
- Edges blend in with one another without a change in brightness (eg. light colours on dark) - Much less grain when compared with SuperRes, which tends to bring out coarseness in the picture - Less of a "severe" look in details/texture, more effortless. IMO a natural look can only be achieved with less complication (no upscaling refinements) - Finer lines http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191351 http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191355 Even Family Guy at 480p looks more like HD when upscaled (I can run NGU med on SD and NGU low on HD) I appreciate this development, madshi Last edited by JarrettH; 22nd November 2016 at 20:30. |
22nd November 2016, 20:26 | #40590 | Link | |
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It takes a good while to find winning combos but once you've nailed them, it's a real blast. I think it would be nice if you could add preexisting rules for SD/720p/1080p/1080p60 and so on, this would make it a lot more convenient than having to figure out stuff like if (srcHeight = 1080) and (Fps > 51) "1080p60" but I'll do my homework as I now need to create a whole bunch of extra rules. I will also need to make a rule to always force FRC except for 60p, I wish there was a "if the refresh rate is identical to the movie frame rate" but fair enough, I'll figure out a rule too as I want FRC for 30p. |
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22nd November 2016, 20:30 | #40591 | Link |
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I guess it is personal preference. I like the sharp look of NGU and I find it very good for 1080->1440 upscaling. Especially for high quality source where any sharpness lost is noticeable. Tho it depends on your hardware and eyes in the end.
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22nd November 2016, 20:52 | #40593 | Link |
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NGU is great! Thanks Madshi it's a great addition...
i m o latest madVR version but can t adjust soften edges and add grain in small steps... only 1 or 2 or 3... in the latest version this not suppose to happen or not? Other question... the use sigmoidal light option apples to the doubling algorithms too? Or only to the Upscale algorithms... in case of yes... what did you recommend for NGU? Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk
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22nd November 2016, 20:57 | #40594 | Link |
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Ah, I misunderstood how that works - I figured it would toggle through all the profiles one at a time, but it just switches between manual and automatic. Thanks, this works!
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) |
22nd November 2016, 21:04 | #40595 | Link |
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I like it too, but imho there is hardly any difference to Jinc + SR, except that NGU is slightly more natural. Not to speak of the performance requirements, A GTX 1080 OC likely won't be enough for NGU low + SSIM 1D with 1080p 60fps. My 1070 can't even downscale it with bicubic then when doing also chroma NGU low scaling.
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22nd November 2016, 21:43 | #40596 | Link |
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Hello,
Either I am doing something totally wrong or things are not supposed to work the way I expect them to. I ripped countless of times my Avatar 3D BluRay disc with latest MakeMKV v1.10.2 and yet the 3D subtitles are not working properly, for that matter they are not working properly even when I directly play the movie from my disc. The 3D effects of the movie most of the time cut through the subtitles, and it doesn't matter which subtitle language I am using. I am using latest madVR build + latest LAV, I tried with both xySubFilter and with MPC-HC internal subtitle engine. I remember a couple of months ago madshi mentioned that 3D subtitles are supposed to work with xySubFilter. FYI I got a passive 3D TV and madVR 3D setting set to auto, the movies themselves do work fine it is just the subtitles in both the bluray disc and the .mkv rip are not really working properly. So am I the only one with this issue? am I doing something wrong? or 3D subtitles were never meant to work with madVR + LAV? Thanx in advance. |
22nd November 2016, 21:47 | #40597 | Link | |
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Edit: Catmull or Catmull AR might be a better choice of upscaler, I dunno. Lanczos 3 + AR is a bit too much for that particular profile though.
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 22nd November 2016 at 21:56. |
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22nd November 2016, 21:49 | #40598 | Link |
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For those of you who use NGU for 1080 -> 1440, which downscaler do you prefer?
And for those Jinc + SR2 users, do you also turn on "scale in sigmoidal light" for Jinc? Also under SR options, do you also enable both LL and AR? Thx! Last edited by seiyafan; 22nd November 2016 at 21:53. |
22nd November 2016, 22:09 | #40599 | Link | |
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I do use sigmoidal light for Jinc upscaling but most of the time upscaling is never used (The Titan XP has enough GPU power for NGU low chroma doubling with NGU high luma doubling). I don't use SR anymore but I used to use AR but not LL.
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22nd November 2016, 22:38 | #40600 | Link | ||
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It's more important to use anti-ringing filter (relaxed is enough imho). Quote:
Anti-ringing option of SuperRes is pure placebo and LL is not much of a difference, but leaving it unticked should be more correct in most cases. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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