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Old 13th November 2016, 22:58   #40081  |  Link
huhn
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make a screen please
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Old 14th November 2016, 14:46   #40082  |  Link
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It's difficult because it does't show up in screenshot. It's like when you put a phone next the monitor and the interference causes the monitor move a bit. Don't know how to explain...
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Old 14th November 2016, 16:37   #40083  |  Link
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Can someone help me better understand the current functionality of HDR on computers at this time, obviously specifically with madVR as well.

When I play an HDR movie, I configure madVR to send HDR directly to the TV as I would expect since I have an HDR capable environment. I've tried things that said online to set the calibration in madVR to 702 or 2020 but that made no visible difference. I've tried configuring my desktop to output 4:2:2 @ 24hz @ 10bit (and 12bit). I can't seem to get 4:4:4 at 10bit on the Windows desktop but I believe I read this isn't possible with our consumer graphics cards? I've also set the rendering at DX11 in madVR as I read that consumer cards akin to the sentence prior to this can't output 4:4:4 at 10bit but can in exclusive mode. The TV input for the PC is set to UHD Color. I've also tried Standard/Movie to see if that made a difference in how the TV understands it. I've also set madVR to change resolution for 2160p24, 2160p25 respectively.

When I take the said MKV files and play them directly on the K8500 Samsung Player, the TV detects it as an HDR video as mentioned above and looks fine.

The only way I can get the HDR videos on the PC to look proper is using the HDR to SDR functionality of madVR. As far as I can tell when playing on the K8500, the result is the same within reason.

I have the KS8000 Samsung that supports HDR, currently when I play an HDR movie from my Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-ray player the TV reports "An HDR Video is Playing." I never see this on the TV when using the PC. The Bluray HDMI input has the UHD Color on as well to get it to detect the HDR video. I have a SR5010 Marantz Receiver that supports all the latest gizmos (2.0a/2.2/4k). And topping off with a 970GTX (I've tried a 1070GTX as well).

Now I tried the 1070GTX as I read that the 970GTX doesn't support HDMI 2.0a which introduced support for HDR data. However when I tried the 1070GTX I noticed no differences except being able to decode HEVC (as expected).

I've tried hooking directly up to the TV from the PC and the results are the same.

Is the answer as simple as madVR can't send the HDR data yet. I mean I do see something about that when selecting that option, but it states I need to manually turn it on? So I'm not sure what that is. The tv has an HDR+ mode but I haven't fiddled with that. I believe HDR+ is for simulating an HDR effect with standard content. As it stands when sending HDR to the TV from the PC, the colors are off (drab and washed out along with very grainy) unless I use HDR to SDR in madVR.

Thanks for any insight!

Last edited by Klownicle; 14th November 2016 at 16:41.
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Old 14th November 2016, 17:11   #40084  |  Link
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Forwarding the HDR metadata isn't working yet, due to a lack of a generic API.
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Old 14th November 2016, 18:06   #40085  |  Link
Klownicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Forwarding the HDR metadata isn't working yet, due to a lack of a generic API.
So its as simple as that, HDR to SDR is the only way to have proper color right now?

Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!
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Old 14th November 2016, 19:42   #40086  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhutzeee View Post
It's difficult because it does't show up in screenshot. It's like when you put a phone next the monitor and the interference causes the monitor move a bit. Don't know how to explain...
Do you have a plasma display?

Try turning off the dithering option "change dither for every frame", this will keep them from moving at least. Another option is calibrating or dropping brightness or contrast on your TV.
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Old 14th November 2016, 20:28   #40087  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klownicle View Post
Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!
Presumably it works with a 900 series card as well, but 4K support is quite limited without full HDMI 2.0, so if thats your goal you should probably upgrade.
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Old 15th November 2016, 00:21   #40088  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klownicle View Post
So its as simple as that, HDR to SDR is the only way to have proper color right now?

Will I NEED a 2.0a video card for sure when it does get implemented? Seems a shame to upgrade from a 970GTX to a 1070GTX, those cards aren't cheap!
Problem is that manufactures decided that HDR TVs have no button to turn on HDR. TV switches to this mode automatically only under certain conditions. You either have to encode files with correct headers and play in TV or you need HDR singling on HDMI output.
There is this:

https://youtu.be/hOsDRmbDdgE
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Old 15th November 2016, 07:31   #40089  |  Link
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Klownicle
Tell me, please, do you see visual differencies on your TV between picture from PC with HDR to SDR in madVR and Samsung K8500 UHD Blu-ray player except "An HDR Video is Playing" in second case of course?
Can you try (or did you tried) Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.ts - link in in two last strings of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...40#post1785540 ?
How can you describe picture on your TV in comparsion of following two screenshots?
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland.png (3,2MB) http://rgho.st/6YhK6hTpN
Samsung_HDR_Wonderland_EVR.png (2,3MB) http://rgho.st/7ZJY5zrxK
kolak
Thanks.

Last edited by VictorLS; 15th November 2016 at 07:52.
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Old 15th November 2016, 12:41   #40090  |  Link
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Should have mentioned: In a future version (not the first) NG1 will probably also be able to directly triple or quadruple the resolution in one step. So anything with "2x" or "double/ing" in the name probably doesn't make too much sense.


I like the NG1 name... what I suggest is in the same line, just add upscale to the middle.. like Next Upscale Generation 1 so we can pronounce NUG 1 or only NUG

Or more complex Next Generation Resolution Upscale (NEGERU)

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Last edited by CarlosCaco; 15th November 2016 at 12:50.
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Old 15th November 2016, 14:43   #40091  |  Link
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NGS: Next Generation Scaler.
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Old 15th November 2016, 15:07   #40092  |  Link
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NGS: Next Generation Scaler.
Why Next Generation? It will be an improvement, not a next generation thing. It would suggest to name it after the creator. If the scaler is aiming at 4K then I would suggest something like madshi4K1 or madScaler4K1 or simpler mad4K1. In a few years we might get 8K with new possibilities and a new madScaler8K1 scaler. Just a thought.
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Old 15th November 2016, 15:24   #40093  |  Link
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+1 for a pronounceable name like NEGERU (Neeedjeeeruuu)
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Old 15th November 2016, 15:42   #40094  |  Link
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+1 for a pronounceable name like NEGERU (Neeedjeeeruuu)


Sounds cool like an African word


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Old 15th November 2016, 16:07   #40095  |  Link
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Why Next Generation? It will be an improvement, not a next generation thing.
Judging by the screenshots madshi showed, I'd call it next gen for a scaler with realtime-performance.
NG1 is fine with me.
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Old 15th November 2016, 17:17   #40096  |  Link
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I like MadNGU (Madshi Next Generation Upscaler)
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:18   #40097  |  Link
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Teaser Part III.

I've seen some people complain that NG1 might be sharpening the image, or be a tad "too sharp". Please note that NG1 does not have any artificial sharpening logic in it. All it does is make an educated guess at what the original hires image ("groundtruth") might have been. But please compare for yourself. Here's a test from the Mononoke Blu-Ray, where we have the original hires image, so we can compare how near the various upscaling algorithms come to the groundtruth.

For your interest, I've downscaled the image *without* Anti-Ringing and in gamma light, because that's what movie studios usually do. NG1 is currently optimized for that situation, so we get the best results with actual DVD and Blu-Ray content.

groundtruth -- | -- downscaled to 50% using Catmull-Rom

madVR:

Jinc AR -- | -- super-xbr 100 -- | -- NNEDI3 256 taps -- | -- NNEDI3 256 taps + SuperRes 4 -- | -- NG1 (near final) -- | -- waifu2x

For comparison purposes, here are the results with the latest MPDN version:

MPDN NNEDI3 256 taps + SuperRes (strength 1.0, 10 passes) -- | -- MPDN NNEDI3 256 taps + SSSR (sharp, 2 passes)

Also have a look at how the various algos handle the top and bottom letterbox edges.
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:22   #40098  |  Link
James Freeman
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Unbelievable.
Well done!

The TV manufacturers are soiling their pants now, I'm 100% sure they closely watching your thread madshi.
I don't know what you do in real life, but you are missing millions in salary if you are not in the industry.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 15th November 2016 at 18:32.
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:30   #40099  |  Link
Sunset1982
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Unbelievable...

The other algos look like crap. Can't see a difference between NG1 and Waifu2!

Now I hope it is not to performance hungry, so my rx480 can handle it.


Well done Madshi! You are the greatest!!
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Old 15th November 2016, 18:35   #40100  |  Link
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How do lower levels of NG1 compare to super-xbr and NNEDI3? There is no way I can run 64 neurons. Close but not 64 neurons.
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