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29th July 2016, 14:42 | #38962 | Link | |
47.952fps@71.928Hz
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 940
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Quote:
Some regional blurays outside of North America and UK will sometimes transfers movies in 24fps.
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29th July 2016, 21:50 | #38963 | Link |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 934
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Yep. Don't forget that 23.976 fps only really exists because of legacy reasons. Films are usually shot at 24 fps and some are transferred to BD like that.
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30th July 2016, 01:04 | #38964 | Link | |
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 473
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Quote:
A video test I believe that helps prove this is the first few seconds of the opening of the movie the Revenant. The entire movie is filmed in natural light. The bit where the boy is backlit by the flames, with bicubic 60 AR you see a soft red glow around him on the ground. With some of the other chroma algos this glow seems to be faded or less saturated. |
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30th July 2016, 02:35 | #38965 | Link |
47.952fps@71.928Hz
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 940
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I'm fully aware of that. I have been for a long time but it's good to let others know.
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Win10 (x64) build 19041 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB (GP106) 3071MB/GDDR5 | (r435_95-4) NTSC | DVD: R1 | BD: A AMD Ryzen 5 2600 @3.4GHz (6c/12th, I'm on AVX2 now!)
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30th July 2016, 11:10 | #38966 | Link | |
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Quote:
I actually like the smoothing effect that debanding on high has. One observation though, for some anime* reducing ringing and reducing halos thingies can degrade seriously the gradients and the overall quality of the image.
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30th July 2016, 11:16 | #38967 | Link | |
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Quote:
The idea for anime is that some color portions are supposed to be smooth, not have a certain color noise texture. I want to erase that texture and be left with very smooth gradients on full color areas. Dithering is a cause of [false texture]. It adds a texture that is not supposed to be there. And because madVR has a high bit depth, I am able to use no dithering, otherwise it would look really awful. Testing through many settings, for Dithering to work nicely on off, one has to select 10 bit in Devices -> Properties. Then again, some people might expect color texture instead of smooth color gradient areas, and as such, might not fully like these settings. Observation: Not all anime look their best on these settings, since some anime intentionally have a texture, that if erased, the entire thing looks awkward, this type of setting works best with most anime, not all.
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30th July 2016, 11:19 | #38968 | Link | |
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Quote:
One thing though, when testing all dithering features, I still can't escape the new texture created thingy (?) I do wonder why we would need dithering at 10 or even 8 bit. It's easily visible on what dithering brings to the table on less than 8 bit processing, but it's unclear on what the advantages are on more than 8 bit processing. If someone wants to post comparation images that can show a visible advantage, I'm very curious. When doing this, also have activated debanding on high, since that alleviates all other problems that ditehring was supposed to.
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30th July 2016, 11:57 | #38970 | Link |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,926
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it is not hard to show why dithering is needed.
dithering no dithering it is needed for correct color anyway. |
30th July 2016, 20:40 | #38972 | Link | ||
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Quote:
But even so... There is something going on on my side. Just let me try one thing. This is processed through all of my filters. Adding dithering will just add noise. but it's an exact frame, and can;t find the episode or the frame right now. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvj84qdbj8...a-120.png?dl=0 Click for full res I think? The point is, it looks better than original, better than dithered, and has no visible problems, it's more high resolution and looks smooth. EDIT ::: What I don't actually get is... It does erase some things... like smoothens things out... like, this would look kinda too smooth, or way too smooth for move materials, unnatural. but for anime, it's just so much cleaner and higher resolution looking... With anime, all that it erases are actually bits of noise? I don't know, when it erases something, what gets erased looks like it was not overly relevant.
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Visual Novels! https://www.facebook.com/seventh.heart.studios/ https://audiophile-heaven.blogspot.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27VWU3ydRY8 Last edited by Georgel; 30th July 2016 at 23:38. |
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30th July 2016, 23:37 | #38974 | Link |
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Oh.
Looking over the reasons why adding dither might have noise, my panel is 6 bit. Now this is messed up, but it's the most sold laptop high end display, and it has just 6 bits. Maybe this is a reason why on my setup I see un-dithered images better? I mean, it would make sense for it to be otherwise, as far as common sense goes. http://www.panelook.com/LP173WF4-SPF...iew_21056.html Something seems wrong on my side honestly. Well, many many people have this display, so the instructions are not entirely wrong, but curiosity is burning me on what is going on. It just looks cleaner to me when deactivating dithering. On the display. Man, I can't wait to get my 100% adobeRGB AUO to escape this nonsense. The more scary thing is that I too think that it should be the other way around, I do believe that dithering should make it better. It just does not work on my setup, adding a layer of visible noise
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31st July 2016, 00:43 | #38975 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
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Quote:
Since your panel is 6-bit (it may have its own high frequency dithering up to 8-bit, usually indicated with the acronym "FRC"), have you tried telling madVR this by settings its "native display bitdepth" to 6 bit in the devices section? 8 bit dithering should be almost imperceptible, so I expect that 6 bit dithering will be more noisy, not less - but 6 bit does match your display.
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) |
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31st July 2016, 01:27 | #38976 | Link | |
Visual Novel Dev.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Maybe this is how it works for this display only... Too bad it almost the universal display for 17" FHD high end gaming laptops. It's even Gsync capable, but not on my Acer... I guess that I'll probably note a change on the settings I recommend after getting a 99% adobeRGB display to work on
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31st July 2016, 01:58 | #38977 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 58
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question:
why is motion resolution so low with madrv and the FPD motion test? this 500M has over 800 lines of motion resolution but with madvr and this test it judders like crazy. even down to 100 lines. i have tested with different settings and there is no dropped frames. checking the same motion resolution test with windows build in movie viewer and its smooth as it should. what trix needs to be disabled in madvr to get back the default motion resolution? Last edited by Patrik G; 31st July 2016 at 02:02. |
31st July 2016, 09:17 | #38979 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,650
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That does't look like it has thin edges 8 applied to it at all. I'm not seeing any edge issues there..Really need the original frame, but if I'm judging this picture on it's appearance, I can't fault it.
In saying that, other content may well look worse with those settings. Last edited by ryrynz; 31st July 2016 at 09:19. |
31st July 2016, 11:01 | #38980 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 69
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ryrynz, here is comparison from his own site. To me the after picture looks unnatural and with lots of details missing.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wv05mfBis...rned%2Boff.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-S6k4Cru_J...ening%2Bx4.png |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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