Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th May 2016, 14:55   #38001  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrik G View Post
ok i get it
didnt know the file was broken for all
thought it was a bad download so i downloaded it again and its the same.

lets hope for a new demo then.

whats broken with the sony hdr demo btw?
i don't remember the exact number but the max brightness was something like 0.5 nits just as a reference SDR is 100 and HDR is usually about 1000.
huhn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 15:12   #38002  |  Link
Patrik G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i don't remember the exact number but the max brightness was something like 0.5 nits just as a reference SDR is 100 and HDR is usually about 1000.
yes i noticed it
it says 1 nit for hdr brightness with this demo so something is wrong
the other hdr demos reports 1000 nits
Patrik G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 15:15   #38003  |  Link
ang3l
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 12
@madshi

madvr 0.90.19 + mpc-hc (nightly) crash at start with last AMD crimson 16.5.2 hotfix

http://pastebin.com/XCWq7Akt
ang3l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 15:40   #38004  |  Link
Uoppi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
What numbers might some people here increase this to?
I have all mine set at 8...
Just do some testing and raise/lower the values to whatever works.

After some thorough testing a few months ago, my optimal settings for example turned out to be 6/20/20. Less or more than 6 didn't work properly and increasing past 20 didn't bring any added benefit (while 18 on the other hand was a tad too low). Now I never get unexpected drops after the playback has started.

Last edited by Uoppi; 16th May 2016 at 15:45.
Uoppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 16:20   #38005  |  Link
djfred93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
Just for knowing, ringing is this, right ?

http://imgur.com/zC5U2kK
djfred93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 16:22   #38006  |  Link
CarlosCaco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brasil, SP, São Paulo
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's difficult to make this configurable. Some users may share your opinion, others might not. If I added an option for this, it would be hard to understand for most users what the option means exactly.

Maybe you could activate supersampling (see image doubling section)? If you do that, upscaling refinement should work as expected. Of course this solution costs quite a bit of extra performance.
Hey madshi, as you suggest i tried again supersampling on v.19 and madvr still donīt activate upscalling refinements on my resolution movie = 720p, screen =1360x768
double checked on aways 2x supersampling and aways when upscaling is needed,
the image doubles, downscale but not apply the refinements
no image changes and no render times changes even if check all the refinements on high
remember you said one time that supersampling only actives upscaling refinements if screen resolution was the same as movie resolution... still not activating on my situation...
i trie restore default settings uninstal, and copy the new version and begin from 0 but still the same behave
by the time i have to use with only image enhacements with no supersampling, its preety good but has some distortions with ab enabled... thanks for your atention and again sorry for bother you and the others with this situation
__________________
Desktop, i5 2500, 8GB, N570 GTX TF III PE/OC
Asus X555LF, i7-5500U, 6GB Ram, Nvidia 930m/HD 5500
Windows 8.1 Pro x64

Last edited by CarlosCaco; 16th May 2016 at 16:28.
CarlosCaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 17:30   #38007  |  Link
har3inger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by djfred93 View Post
Just for knowing, ringing is this, right ?

http://imgur.com/zC5U2kK
Yes, that is compression ringing (artefact from low video bitrate). However, the dering filter is more targeted towards downscale ringing, which are thin halos right beside lines, not ripples a fair ways away. The filter may not remove the ringing in this image very well/at all.
har3inger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:15   #38008  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Actually ringing is an artifact of sharpening of downscaled images.

For upscaling (chroma or luma) I don't think more than Bilinear is needed for accurate results.
Anyone disagree and why?
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.

Last edited by James Freeman; 16th May 2016 at 18:23.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:20   #38009  |  Link
burfadel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ang3l View Post
@madshi

madvr 0.90.19 + mpc-hc (nightly) crash at start with last AMD crimson 16.5.2 hotfix

http://pastebin.com/XCWq7Akt
Works fine here (Windows 10 Insider). What OS and card do you have?
burfadel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:46   #38010  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Actually ringing is an artifact of sharpening of downscaled images.

For upscaling (chroma or luma) I don't think more than Bilinear is needed for accurate results.
Anyone disagree and why?
what?
huhn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:48   #38011  |  Link
aufkrawall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Works fine here (Windows 10 Insider). What OS and card do you have?
It works fine here for me too with Win 10 x64 final (latest updates) and R9 390.
aufkrawall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:50   #38012  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosCaco View Post
the same way we choose with all other bigger upscaling factors
if we want to sharpen the source we use image enhacements
if we want apply the sharpen after upscaling use upscalling refinements
if we want use in both use in both
There's a reason I'm disabling the upscaling refinements for very small upscaling factors. As I said before: You don't like it, other users might like it. So if I fulfill your wish, other users might be unhappy. I can't make everybody happy without adding a new option. And that new option would be hard to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosCaco View Post
as you suggest i tried again supersampling on v.19 and madvr still donīt activate upscalling refinements on my resolution movie = 720p, screen =1360x768
double checked on aways 2x supersampling and aways when upscaling is needed,
the image doubles, downscale but not apply the refinements
no image changes and no render times changes even if check all the refinements on high
Your posts are really hard to read. Try sorting your sentences into logical paragraphs, please, and don't use line breaks, except to separate paragraphs.

So is image doubling not activating for you, if you select "supersampling" in the image doubling section? Or does it activate, but upscaling refinement doesn't activate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcec View Post
Just when I thought madVR can't get any better, and that it is already amazing as it is... this deringing thing is frigging fantastic! Ringing in the original bluray source is my number 1 annoyance. I am even annoyed by ones caused by very mild DNR+EE that is present in newer titles like Force Awakens. This thing is doing wonders! A big THANK YOU!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I haven't mentioned it yet but "reduce ringing artifacts" is great.. like all these new options it is hard for me to offer useful feedback for but it is a Good Thing. The updated version is better still.
Thanks a lot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
I have "delay playback start until render queue is full" turned on yet I still get the few dropped frames at the start of everything for a couple of secs.
Try with default settings, but "delay playback start" activated. Still the same problem?

Smooth motion FRC does need a moment to activate properly. That's just the way it is atm. It should only be a very short time, though, not a couple of seconds. Maybe your settings are too high so that the GPU has trouble keeping up? That might be partially responsible. Try lowering your madVR settings a bit to give the GPU more room to breathe. That might already fix the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Is there a way for a 3rd party control system to control any of the MADVR functions via IP? I have currently been using Eventghost but I would like to eliminate the middleman and control it directly if possible.
Haven't we discussed this already a while ago? I'm pretty sure somebody asked a similar question not long ago, and I think it was you, wasn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
??? What's the point of this? Adding grain is just more noise isn't it?
Most movie sources have a bit of grain in them. The way the deringing works, it totally smoothes areas where ringing was detected. As a result these areas look smoother than the rest of the image, which is a visible artifact. So I'm adding grain to make these areas appear more natural and not overly smoothed over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrik G View Post
problem with the Sony HDR camp Demo
Just read a couple pages back. This was already reported and extensively discussed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
I understand your point but maybe it would makes sense to do a test build with different tresholds to play with? Maybe we will find a better compromise, maybe we won't.

I just tried it and I found more artefacts. Look at the teeth of the characters. It's maybe the only thing that keeps me to use it all the time with compressed videos.

Deringing 90.18 vs 90.19
Deringing off vs on

Here's the original picture but I don't know if it will help because on my side, deringing doesn't seem to work on juste one picture.

http://postimg.org/image/5t877ur9t/
Oh well, I suppose I'll have to check where the artifact is coming from. Maybe I can fix it. I don't think modifying the thresholds it very promising. Maybe as a last resort, if everything else fails. But I'd much prefer not having a strength setting. The visible difference would be very small and users wouldn't know which setting to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
As expected, unfortunately deringing in .19 looks quite dirty with cartoons.

.18:


.19:
It's not looking that dirty to my eyes, but my computer monitor isn't very good, I suppose. I guess I could try to adjust the grain level to the grain that is in the rest of the image. So I would add more grain for grainy sources, and less grain for very smooth sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ang3l View Post
@madshi

madvr 0.90.19 + mpc-hc (nightly) crash at start with last AMD crimson 16.5.2 hotfix

http://pastebin.com/XCWq7Akt
Does this one fix it?

http://madshi.net/madVR9019amdFix.rar
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 18:53   #38013  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
what?
Yeah.
A simple interpolation is all that it takes for upscaling.
You can't ADD detail that is not there, can you?
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.

Last edited by James Freeman; 16th May 2016 at 18:55.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 19:03   #38014  |  Link
Nevilne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 134
the irony of saying that in madvr thread
Nevilne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 19:11   #38015  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
A simple interpolation is all that it takes for upscaling.
You can't ADD detail that is not there, can you?
OMG, are you serious? Why don't you take a nicely sharp photo, scale it down to 25% with a good downscaling algorithm, and then scale it back up with madVR to 100%. Then compare Bilinear to the more sophisticated algorithms. If you think that Bilinear is producing the best quality (or comes nearest to the original image), then you need to go visit an eye doctor, and very quickly.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 19:12   #38016  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
No offense of course, just some speculation.
Interpolation is for interpolation which always starts with nearest neighbor, sharpening and anti-aliasing comes on top of that if wanted or needed.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 19:15   #38017  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 445
Nearest neighbor, linear and bicubic (and its variants) are interpolation-based, but upscalers like SuperXBR and NNEDI3 work quite differently.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 20:07   #38018  |  Link
aufkrawall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's not looking that dirty to my eyes, but my computer monitor isn't very good, I suppose. I guess I could try to adjust the grain level to the grain that is in the rest of the image. So I would add more grain for grainy sources, and less grain for very smooth sources.
Some areas look very dirty to me in comparison, e.g. the dark wooden wall at the stairway.
Well, looking forward to your grain detection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
OMG, are you serious? Why don't you take a nicely sharp photo, scale it down to 25% with a good downscaling algorithm, and then scale it back up with madVR to 100%. Then compare Bilinear to the more sophisticated algorithms. If you think that Bilinear is producing the best quality (or comes nearest to the original image), then you need to go visit an eye doctor, and very quickly.
mmd
aufkrawall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 20:08   #38019  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Yeah.
A simple interpolation is all that it takes for upscaling.
You can't ADD detail that is not there, can you?
but you can remove them.

and bilinear is pretty good at making the image extremely unsharp so it is not that "accurate".

spline 3 is know to have pretty high psnr or was it gaussian?
what so ever PSNR is just math and not subjective.

i mean x264 can be used to achieve the highest possible PSNR but this usually doesn't result in a better subjective visible results. it is off by default for a reason.

doom9 was down so i guess i'm a little bit late.
huhn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2016, 20:11   #38020  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
No offense of course, just some speculation.
Why do you feel the need to speculate at all? It's so easy to test it. Please do yourself (and us all) a favor and do the test I suggested in my previous comment. If you do that, you'll quickly see that your speculation is way off.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.