madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by Uoppi

1) Is there consensus if any of the new features (like anti-bloating) is "needed" when only using moderate superres (chroma/luma at 1 or max 2) and no other sharpening? (For luma I use NNEDI3 at 32 or above whenever possible, but for a couple of profiles I've had to resort to Super XBR.)

2) Would you use superres at 1 or 2 for a) SD -> 1080p (mostly good quality DVD rips) and b) 720p -> 1080p? I would think 2 for a) and and 1 for b) and not the other way around, right?

Just asking for some quick tips because I have zero hours left in my tweaking quota (says wife) after having spent tens of hours with madVR already, LOL. After upgrading to v0.90.17 I haven't touched any of the settings and things look OK to me with the new settings at default.

I do not fully understand your question.

A consensus can only be given for users having the exact same setup and videos usually. This being said, the consensus is that AB helps a lot and makes things better, but everyone found their own setting that works for them.

I have a hard time reading the rest of the question.

Super res has it's uses too, usage of AB is good for all algorithms so far.

[regiregi22]

Hi guys, is there any guide regarding the recommended settings on madvr latest versions?
I have a GTX 970.

It's like two years ago since I haven't updated madvr/mpc-hc, seems like quite some options have been added.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by regiregi22

Hi guys, is there any guide regarding the recommended settings on madvr latest versions?
I have a GTX 970.

With my GTX 970 card I have :

- Chroma upscaling : NNEDI3 128
- Image downscaling : SSIM 2D 100%, AR relaxed, LL
- Image doubling : Double & quad Luma & Chroma at always super-xbr, anti-bloating 25
- Image Upscaling Jinc AR
- Upscaling Refinement : Sharpen Edges 4.0, Enhance Detail 1.0, Lumasharpen 0.5, AR, SuperRes 3 AR, anti-bloat 50%.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

Thank you Warner...
So at 1080p > 1080p you never use sharpen edges + crispen edges at the same time?

They both do the same thing, so those shaders would be competing with each other. It is better to choose one or the other, not both.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by regiregi22

Hi guys, is there any guide regarding the recommended settings on madvr latest versions?
I have a GTX 970.

It's like two years ago since I haven't updated madvr/mpc-hc, seems like quite some options have been added.

Try this link from the guide in my signature.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I hope you don't mind if I steal your description of anti-bloat?

Sure, I'm not sure if it is 100% accurate. But you can use it. I've used many of your descriptions.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Betroz

With my GTX 970 card I have :

- Chroma upscaling : NNEDI3 128
- Image downscaling : SSIM 2D 100%, AR relaxed, LL
- Image doubling : Double & quad Luma & Chroma at always super-xbr, anti-bloating 25
- Image Upscaling Jinc AR
- Upscaling Refinement : Sharpen Edges 4.0, Enhance Detail 1.0, Lumasharpen 0.5, AR, SuperRes 3 AR, anti-bloat 50%.

Too much sharpening for my tastes. Lots of redundant shaders.

[huhn]

sharpen edges and crisped edge (thin edges and enhance details) are not designed to work on the same part of the image so you can use them all together at the same time.

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=34110

[Uoppi]

Originally Posted by Georgel

I do not fully understand your question.

A consensus can only be given for users having the exact same setup and videos usually. This being said, the consensus is that AB helps a lot and makes things better, but everyone found their own setting that works for them.

I have a hard time reading the rest of the question.

Super res has it's uses too, usage of AB is good for all algorithms so far.

OK, I'll leave AB disabled because video looks good already and I've got minimal time to go through testing all AB permutations (that's why I was asking for some starting points).

As for the second question, I don't know how to word it better. In essence, would one generally use higher strength of superres the bigger the upscaling factor or vice versa. If the answer is the classic "use your eyes", I'll just leave superres at 1 for everything and stay happy.

[aufkrawall]

The higher the upscaling factor, the less SuperRes strength you need to see a distinct effect of it.
Matter of personal taste if you want to have a stronger or weaker effect. High SuperRes strength looks less artificial than other sharpen filters, however you can get problems with aliasing, mostly when the source is bad.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by Warner306

Too much sharpening for my tastes. Lots of redundant shaders.

Ok, what do you recommend that I change/remove?

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

The higher the upscaling factor, the less SuperRes strength you need to see a distinct effect of it.
Matter of personal taste if you want to have a stronger or weaker effect. High SuperRes strength looks less artificial than other sharpen filters, however you can get problems with aliasing, mostly when the source is bad.

I find the opposite; the higher the scaling factor, the higher the value of SuperRes is appropriate because of how soft the image becomes.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Betroz

Ok, what do you recommend that I change/remove?

At 2x (1080p -> 2160p), I would use SuperRes (3) without anti-bloating because SuperRes really doesn't bloat all that much if the image is not oversharpened. Nor does it need anti-ringing. enhance details (1.0) is another shader that is not redundant. To me, SuperRes at the right strength provides plenty of sharpening on its own.

sharpen edges and LumaSharpen are likely pushing the image towards being oversharp and are redundant. If you like the image really sharp, I might add sharpen edges with anti-bloating but not LumaSharpen on top of that.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Betroz

With my GTX 970 card I have :

- Chroma upscaling : NNEDI3 128

I've said it before and I'll say it again, good lord why?
Did you read anything in the forum before setting that, or even do a visual comparison between 16 or 32 neurons vs 128? Such a waste of resources.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by Warner306

I find the opposite; the higher the scaling factor, the higher the value of SuperRes is appropriate because of how soft the image becomes.

I don't see where your latter sentence would contradict my statement.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I don't see where your latter sentence would contradict my statement.

You're right; both are true.

[Uoppi]

Originally Posted by Warner306

You're right; both are true.

So if I understood you and aufkrawall correctly:

The effect of SuperRes may be easier to spot when scaling SD -> 1080p vs. 720p -> 1080p using an identical SuperRes setting (1, 2, 3 etc.)

But because of the softness of SD, a higher SuperRes setting may be required to counter the softness (but with the increased the risk of artefacts). And 720p on the other may become oversharp, so a lower setting might be more appropriate.

Notice the "mays" and "mights". I do realize sharpening is about personal preference. I have sharpness turned to 0 on my Samsung TV; my eyes are sensitive to too much sharpness and start to "hurt".

That's why I tend to use SuperRes at 1, use no other sharpening and direct my available resources towards NNEDI3 processing. Also when downscaling, I use lower values, mostly bicubic 75% and for UHD -> 1080p also 2D SSIM 25%.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

I've said it before and I'll say it again, good lord why?
Did you read anything in the forum before setting that, or even do a visual comparison between 16 or 32 neurons vs 128? Such a waste of resources.

If rendering time is below 30ms, why not? All my content is 23 fps, so my GTX 970 can handle it. Image doubling at NNEDI3 kills performance more.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Betroz

If rendering time is below 30ms, why not? All my content is 23 fps, so my GTX 970 can handle it. Image doubling at NNEDI3 kills performance more.

but image doubling will have an effect on image quality unlike nnedi3 chroma at higher neurons.

[Betroz]

Originally Posted by huhn

but image doubling will have an effect on image quality unlike nnedi3 chroma at higher neurons.

I know, but super-xbr anti-bloat 25% is good for image doubling too, and the fans on my 970 card doesn't spin up as much as they do with NNEDI3. A good compromise I think. Chroma Upscaling 128 is nice to have with 1080p movies that run 1:1 (no image scaling).