madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by 70MM

How do I use ffdshow to improve clips from Youtube, I cant find this setting anywhere in madvr?

MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

I just covered this a few posts back at the top of the page. At this point you can use Avisynth and ffdshow to achieve what you want, so either read about about how to set that up or sit back and wait.

Where do I make these settings please for improving youtube?
Avisynth and ffdshow

[70MM]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.

Thank you, hopefully I find it in JRiver which Im using...

[70MM]

Can someone help explain this for me please as I still don't understand it from Warners help section.

I want to ask about the section “add extra frames at the beginning” (cant remember the correct term)

They are defaulted to 8.
Ive mentioned Im getting an occasional jump from time to time, someone said to change from Need13 which I did but I still got the skip/jump from time to time….
Now using super xbr 100
I looked at the "add extra frames at the beginning section" and went next up from 8 but still got the occasional skipped frame..
I dropped it to 6 and it got better..
I moved it down to 4 and it was perfect...
What does this actually do and going low down to 4 is it a problem when the default is 8?
Im only using 1080p > 1080p and the card is the 970, proj RS600

Sorry Im still a bit dumb on all this stuff

[Asmodian]

I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice.
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size".

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice.
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size".

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

[Asmodian]

Oh! Of course, you mean the rendering -> windowed mode -> "how many video frames shall be presented in advance:"! I should have guessed that.

That is similar to what I described before, a buffer for frames after madVR has rendered them but this one is in Direct3D, the GPU's drivers basically, and out of madVR's hands completely. As close to the display as madVR can get it. I use three frames in advance* myself. This setting has the biggest impact in apparent seek times if "delay playback start until render queue is full" is disabled, the present queue (frames in advance) must always fill before playback can start.

*Actually I use 3 backbuffers instead of a present queue, an older method used when "present several frames in advance" is unchecked or, in my case, using "enable windowed overlay" in general settings.

Originally Posted by 70MM

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

I am not sure what "look a bit odd at times" might mean but in case you are talking about presentation glitches or dropped frames....

If changing the present queue has a noticable effect you might have driver issues (is it a laptop or dual GPU?) or be using settings that are too high.

Maybe this helps?

Toggle the On Screen Display by pressing Ctrl-J.

The sum of the average stats "deinterlace" (if present), "rendering", and "present" should be a bit below the frame time, Y, in the line "v-sync [X] ms, frame [Y] ms" to avoid dropped frames and presentation glitches. For example, progressive 29.97 fps video has a new frame every 33.37 ms so "rendering"+"present" needs to be a few ms below 33.37 ms. 23.976 fps video has a new frame only every 41.71 ms so you can use more demanding settings with lower frame rate video. Exactly how far below the frame time is required for glitch free playback is dependent on the system but a few milliseconds is usually sufficient.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by 70MM

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.

[70MM]

Originally Posted by Warner306

If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.

As usual thank you Warner for clarifying this... The skipped frame seems to only be ever so often, I notice it more on the start of a movie logo that might be turning. The same ones don't skip on my old Kodi PC, so obviously its a setting that's not right on my new JRiver Madvr PC.

Can you tell me where I find that present cue in JRiver please, Ive never seen it? Mind you there are so many settings on JRiver its a bit overwhelming! I do have their Red October VideoClock ticked on. Im bitstreaming.
This is my build.
CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700 3.4Ghz
Motherboard: Asus H170M-PLUS Intel H170
Memory: 16GB 2133MHz DDR4
Video: Asus STRIX GTX 970 DirectCU II Overclocked 4GB GDDR5
Optical drive: ASUS BC-12D2HT 12x Blu-ray Reader
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SATA3 2.5" SSD


It also looks like I have to have this disabled, I will go and check it now.
"delay playback start until render queue is full"

[Werewolfy]

Originally Posted by madshi

Here are the most important areas of FEEDBACK I need:

a) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for sharpening (LumaSharpen + AdaptiveSharpen)? If so, which strength settings do you like?

Yes, it's useful. I find AdaptiveSharpen to look more natural with anti-bloating 75% or 100%.

Originally Posted by madshi

b) Do you consider the anti-bloating and anti-ringing options useful for SuperRes? I think anti-bloating might not be beneficial here, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Do you see any benefit in the anti-ringing option? SuperRes already didn't ring that much, so I wonder if the separate anti-ringing post processing option is worthwhile in your opinion or not?

I only tested the anti-bloating filter so far and I don't like it for SuperRes, it removes all the benefits brought by SuperRes even with low values.

I will try to test the other features ASAP.

[Georgel]

Examples of better image because of applying 8xET + 4XES + 150AB + AR.

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jaojzf26o7...efore.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/fetu0swtai...after.png?dl=0

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2n89je07z...fore1.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/0me2x00j90...fter1.png?dl=0

@huhn - please take a look.

EDIT::: IT works just as good with many other anime I have, but in general, the image is crisper and better if I am using upscaling refinement to upscale smaller images. That way, the distortions are almost in existent.

On the other hand, I think that the tradeoff with a bit of distortions still results in a better general image than without.

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

Yes, it's useful. I find AdaptiveSharpen to look more natural with anti-bloating 75% or 100%.

I agree, madshi informed us that Crispen Edges does something very similar to AdaptiveSharpen+Ani-Bloating 100%.
Also, Crispen Edges takes third the performance of AS+AB 100% on my system.

[BloodySword]

Originally Posted by Georgel

Examples of better image because of applying 8xET + 4XES + 150AB + AR.

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jaojzf26o7...efore.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/fetu0swtai...after.png?dl=0

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2n89je07z...fore1.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/0me2x00j90...fter1.png?dl=0

EDIT::: IT works just as good with many other anime I have, but in general, the image is crisper and better if I am using upscaling refinement to upscale smaller images. That way, the distortions are almost in existent.

On the other hand, I think that the tradeoff with a bit of distortions still results in a better general image than without.

Nice! What Graphics Card and CPU do you have? How many FPS can be processed without triggering the fuse in my breaker box?

[YxP]

I wish Georgel's taste could be linked as an example to everyone who asks what are the best settings :P Some like it sharp, some like it blurry...some like it distorted. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by YxP

I wish Georgel's taste could be linked as an example to everyone who asks what are the best settings :P Some like it sharp, some like it blurry...some like it distorted. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I actually think that there is no best.

There is what you like for what materials you watch.

I would seriously think twice before watching a FHD TV show with these settings. It could really look over-sharpened, and might be un-natural. On the other hand, there are very few anime that do not feel so much better when using ET + ES + 150AB + AR. But there are anime that are already too sharp. And for them, you must adjust, or deactivate.

[Georgel]

Originally Posted by BloodySword

Nice! What Graphics Card and CPU do you have? How many FPS can be processed without triggering the fuse in my breaker box?

I run a laptop with i7 - 4710HQ CPU + GTX860M GPU. IT is pretty low power, and it is able to run freely.

There are four things that cause frame drops for me:

1. Using image doubling for FHD videos

2. Using NNEDI over 16 neurons.

3. Using both image enhancement and upscaling refinement.

4. using image downscaling 2D.

If I do not use any of these settings, I get no frame drops regardless of video. I can watch smooth videos (60fps) without problems.

[DragonQ]

I have an issue with changing channels whilst watching live TV within Kodi DSPlayer. If I switch from one HD channel to another, frames start being played out of order (so everything looks like it's jumping around all over the place). If I switch from an HD channel to an SD one, I get a grey and/or green screen and have to restart Kodi.

Here's my specs and software versions on the problematic machine:

• Kodi with DSPlayer 16.1 RC2 (latest)
• MadVR 0.90.17 (latest)
• Fullscreen Exclusive Mode disabled
• MediaPortal PVR Client
• Windows 10
• Intel Xeon X5650 @ 4 GHz
• AMD R9 270 (2 GB)

I've also tried using both ffmpeg and TSReader within the MediaPortal PVR Client settings, as well as turning "fast channel switching" on and off. These settings make no difference. Here's a summary of my MadVR rendering settings:

• Direct3D 9 renderer
• Use separate device for presentation
• Use separate device for DXVA processing
• Delay playback start until render queue is full
• Windowed mode (present 8 frames in advance)
• Smooth motion enabled

I've uploaded log files from when I started to watch one HD channel, then switched to another HD channel, then stopped playback. Hopefully it helps to identify the issue!

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

crispen edges is not identical to FineSharp. Some of those options make no sense for crispen edges. Some may, but I don't really see the sense of exposing all that. Which of those do you consider important and why?

"ldmp" because it's set too high in madVR and it forbids the enhancement of very small details. When set too low, the noise is sharpened too, but a noise remover can be used to avoid this. Also, we need a noise remover in madVR.

And "xstr" so I can define it to 0, because it sharpens the edges only (like unsharpHQ) and it's not a good thing for a high definition look (but it's good for a 3D effect look).

[trip_let]

Originally Posted by madshi

a) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for sharpening (LumaSharpen + AdaptiveSharpen)? If so, which strength settings do you like?

Yes, either 75% or 100%.

Originally Posted by madshi

b) Do you consider the anti-bloating and anti-ringing options useful for SuperRes? I think anti-bloating might not be beneficial here, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Do you see any benefit in the anti-ringing option? SuperRes already didn't ring that much, so I wonder if the separate anti-ringing post processing option is worthwhile in your opinion or not?

I like the anti-bloating but don't see much either way in the anti-ringing.

Originally Posted by madshi

c) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for SSIM downscaling? If so, which strength settings do you like?

I don't really prefer them but it looks different enough to be useful. But I don't really care about downscaling anyway.

Originally Posted by madshi

d) Which of the two anti-ringing options do you prefer for downscaling? (Edit: FYI, these options do *not* affect SSIM downscaling)

Again, not of much interest to me but in general and including here I'd take the option that's more different, so the strict (soft).

[CarlosCaco]

i have an hdtv that the resolution is 1366x768, but the tv has a 1080p mode(i believe this is for bluray players) on this mode the desktop turns a lot blurred because i believe the tv downscale the image to fit the screen but the resolution showed in madvr is 1080p...
i want some opinion... should i use this mode? the blu ray players use this mode on 1080p content...
is there any benefit using madvr to display 1080p and letting the tv downscale to fit? is strange because the tv osd shows 1080p24 but in manualsays that the maximum resolution is 1366x768p