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Old 23rd March 2016, 21:16   #37081  |  Link
CarlosCaco
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thanks madshi for the new features
its a lot of features to test, take some time to say something about...
i sugest to a future version a debug mode similar to the debug mode from avisynth unsharp mask HQ that turns the movie green and you can fine tune the sharpen seeing the dark areas (flat) and light areas and lines that are sharpened, you can cleary see ringin, noise etc...
its good mode to fine tune all features with the algorithms
think about that
thanks for the efforts
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Old 23rd March 2016, 21:35   #37082  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes View Post
Uh, madshi, Service Pack 3 was the last service pack for Windows XP
Ooops. It was NT which had 6 SPs. I wasn't sure, so I had googled and found some hits for XP SP6, so I thought it existed. Sorry for the confusion...
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Old 24th March 2016, 08:52   #37083  |  Link
khanmein
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DXVA2-CB/native + HEVC + GTX 970 is not working well when playing h.265 .mkv during i tried to drag the seek-bar.

i tested NV CUVID is way more smoother.
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Old 24th March 2016, 09:54   #37084  |  Link
Dreamland
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anti-bloating is GREAT!!

great work!
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Old 24th March 2016, 10:11   #37085  |  Link
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madshi you said you were aware of the device profile problems with it only entering one thing at a time, will that be fixed up next version?
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Old 24th March 2016, 11:54   #37086  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Here are the most important areas of FEEDBACK I need:

a) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for sharpening (LumaSharpen + AdaptiveSharpen)? If so, which strength settings do you like?
Yes, at 75% strength setting. Actually I don’t use either of the two sharpeners, so I don’t have a strong preference here.

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b) Do you consider the anti-bloating and anti-ringing options useful for SuperRes? I think anti-bloating might not be beneficial here, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Do you see any benefit in the anti-ringing option? SuperRes already didn't ring that much, so I wonder if the separate anti-ringing post processing option is worthwhile in your opinion or not?
I like the anti-ringing enabled and the anti-bloating disabled for SuperRes. I would prefer that the anti-ringing option stays.

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c) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for SSIM downscaling? If so, which strength settings do you like?
No. It tends to take away that “SSIM” look from the image.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
d) Which of the two anti-ringing options do you prefer for downscaling? (Edit: FYI, these options do *not* affect SSIM downscaling)
Strict (soft). Now I am a bit confused between Jinc Strict AR LL and SSIM 1D 25% AR LL. The crisp image of the latter is very impressive but I also very much like the analog look of the former.
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Old 24th March 2016, 12:05   #37087  |  Link
Hyllian
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Hi, madshi, congrats for the new version. Is there any theory behind what anti-bloating does? I have some difficult to understand what's its purpose.
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Old 24th March 2016, 12:23   #37088  |  Link
chros
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It may vary with the scene because if the scene has "unusual" colors, that part of the 3D LUT might not be in the texture cache. A lot depends on how the GPU driver handles the 3D LUT, how much of it is in the texture cache etc. Will depend on GPU texture cache size, driver version etc. But the last time a user reported a problem like this was a LOOONG time ago. I had thought issues like this had been a thing of the past. In any case, there's probably not much I can do about it, except maybe allowing smaller 3D LUTs to be used.
Thanks for the info, I haven't known this.
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i'm looking into that. i simply wanted to know if the change to super xBR is taking extra resources.

90.15 was working. even with a render queue of 6.

looks like it is 3d LUT related. i don't get rendering spike without it. but a 3D LUT should always take the same processing power with CFR content.
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I often run madvr on the edge of my GPU performance so i am curious in this as well. For 1080i60 I can have one scene spike to 17-20+ms render time when the whole clip avg take about 13-14ms.
This typically happen for me is TV broadcast, a 1080i60 blu ray would not have such problem. Does the bit rate matter? But that doesn't sound vright? Since it is still same number of pixels.
I can also check this tomorrow, but for that: can you upload a 1-2 minute sample (that includes both good and bad part of the video) to some host to be able to replicate the problem? (You can cut it out with mkvtoolnix.)
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Old 24th March 2016, 12:48   #37089  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
DXVA2-CB/native + HEVC + GTX 970 is not working well when playing h.265 .mkv during i tried to drag the seek-bar.

i tested NV CUVID is way more smoother.
This sounds like a decoder specific topic, which doesn't belong into this thread.

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Originally Posted by Dreamland View Post
anti-bloating is GREAT!!
Glad you like it! Are you talking about sharpening, though? Or about SSIM downscaling? Or SuperRes?

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
madshi you said you were aware of the device profile problems with it only entering one thing at a time, will that be fixed up next version?
I'm not 100% sure what you mean right now.

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Originally Posted by omarank View Post
Yes, at 75% strength setting. Actually I don’t use either of the two sharpeners, so I don’t have a strong preference here.

I like the anti-ringing enabled and the anti-bloating disabled for SuperRes. I would prefer that the anti-ringing option stays.

No. It tends to take away that “SSIM” look from the image.

Strict (soft). Now I am a bit confused between Jinc Strict AR LL and SSIM 1D 25% AR LL. The crisp image of the latter is very impressive but I also very much like the analog look of the former.
Thanks!

FWIW, instead of SSIM 1D 25% without Anti-Bloating try combining SSIM 1D 100% with 50% or 75% Anti-Bloating. Try downscaling a sharp high-quality high-res foto to a *much* smaller resolution, e.g. 4x or 8x downscaling factor. It may change your mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyllian View Post
Hi, madshi, congrats for the new version. Is there any theory behind what anti-bloating does? I have some difficult to understand what's its purpose.
Images say more than words. So here are a couple of comparison screenshots, showing what Anti-Bloating does when used with AdaptiveSharpen:

original - | - no sharpening - | - AdaptiveSharpen 1.5 - | - AS 3.0 applied in 2x supersampling - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 50% - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 100% - | - AS 0.5

Basically if you compare the "no sharpening" with "AdaptiveSharpen 1.5" you should see that the image gets nicely sharpened, but gets a somewhat "bloated" look. Meaning everything looks simply a little bit fat / bloated. This is what you usually get by using unsharp masking. You can lessen this bloated look by using supersampling (upscaling + sharpening + downscaling), which you can see in the "AS 3.0 applied in 2x supersampling" image. Of course that costs a lot of extra GPU performance.

Now have a look at the "AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 50% / 100%" images and you should see that the 50% Anti-Bloating filter has a similar effect as using supersampling, at a much lower performance cost. And the 100% image now has nicely "thin" edges and features. The bloated look is totally gone. Now one might wonder whether Anti-Bloating simply reduces the amount of sharpening. But no, that's not the case, which you can double check by comparing the "AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 100%" image to the "AS 0.5" image.

Last edited by madshi; 24th March 2016 at 12:54.
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Old 24th March 2016, 13:11   #37090  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not 100% sure what you mean right now.
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Another issue, when typing in a profile, group name & rules under devices each key press takes me to color and gamma, so I have to click back on the profile/group name etc after each key press to finish typing.
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yeah, it's on my to do list.

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Originally Posted by omarank View Post
No. It tends to take away that “SSIM” look from the image.
I think I agree with this as well, need to look at some 4k downscaling rather than supersampled video to be sure.
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Old 24th March 2016, 13:18   #37091  |  Link
RDJ
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Subtitles now shift up instead of dropping off the screen with narrow windows when crop black bars is disabled and move subtitles is enabled.

When black bar detection is enabled but crop black bars is disabled, black bars still get cropped with short windows.
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Old 24th March 2016, 13:18   #37092  |  Link
Hyllian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Images say more than words. So here are a couple of comparison screenshots, showing what Anti-Bloating does when used with AdaptiveSharpen:

original - | - no sharpening - | - AdaptiveSharpen 1.5 - | - AS 3.0 applied in 2x supersampling - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 50% - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 100% - | - AS 0.5

Thanks for the explanation. The effect is very subtle, but noticeable.

Does it only works after sharpening filters? Could it be use after Super-xBR to prevent bloating? Did you test it?

Last edited by Hyllian; 24th March 2016 at 15:23.
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Old 24th March 2016, 13:56   #37093  |  Link
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I can also check this tomorrow, but for that: can you upload a 1-2 minute sample (that includes both good and bad part of the video) to some host to be able to replicate the problem? (You can cut it out with mkvtoolnix.)
i don't see how they are related.

and to reproduce my issue you need to scale to UHD and you need a 3d LUT. maybe even my 3d LUT.

at 1080p there are no spikes what so ever. so it could be to little Vram or something simple like that.

i can make a sample later but that's not that easy. because i get small spikes all the time.
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Old 24th March 2016, 14:11   #37094  |  Link
scollaco
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I'm a big fan of the anti bloating. It is great!! Currently for 1080p content, I'm using crispen edges 1.0, Lumasharpen 1.0 and both anti bloating and anti ringing checked.

Thanks Madshi!
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Old 24th March 2016, 15:18   #37095  |  Link
omarank
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FWIW, instead of SSIM 1D 25% without Anti-Bloating try combining SSIM 1D 100% with 50% or 75% Anti-Bloating. Try downscaling a sharp high-quality high-res foto to a *much* smaller resolution, e.g. 4x or 8x downscaling factor. It may change your mind.
I tried but I still have the same opinion as earlier. To my eyes, SSIM doesn’t have any bloating effect and so when anti-bloating is applied it’s thinning effect makes the images look kind of unnatural. Also SSIM has a characteristic look – crisp images with nice defined textures; that look goes away with anti-bloating. Having said that, I very much appreciate all the efforts that you put in providing new algorithms.

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Images say more than words. So here are a couple of comparison screenshots, showing what Anti-Bloating does when used with AdaptiveSharpen:

original - | - no sharpening - | - AdaptiveSharpen 1.5 - | - AS 3.0 applied in 2x supersampling - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 50% - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 100% - | - AS 0.5
Nice to see this comparison. Anti-bloating works very well with sharpening algorithms.
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Old 24th March 2016, 15:52   #37096  |  Link
chros
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i don't see how they are related.
Madshi said, that it can depend on the scene.
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and to reproduce my issue you need to scale to UHD and you need a 3d LUT. maybe even my 3d LUT.

at 1080p there are no spikes what so ever. so it could be to little Vram or something simple like that.
Then I can't test it, I don't have an UHD display
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Old 24th March 2016, 16:22   #37097  |  Link
huhn
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Madshi said, that it can depend on the scene.
but there is no word that he is using a 3D LUT.
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Then I can't test it, I don't have an UHD display
the more i try to reproduce this the more strange it gets.

XY SUBfilter is amplifying the issue. with it i can get 400% higher GPU usage most likely way more. i saw AVG rendertimes of over 120ms. with using only a 3D LUT it is only up 50-100% higher GPU usages.

even more strange thing is that this is happening even if no subs are displayed or if they are hide. so as long as xy subfilter is loaded with a 3D LUT it is amplifying the issue.

and most strange thing is that XY subfilter without a 3D LUT doesn't really affect performance.
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Old 24th March 2016, 16:50   #37098  |  Link
huhn
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here a sample with a 3D LUT.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-...nissue.7z.html

after loading the 3D LUT you can toggle it with shift+control+3

i can't trigger this issue without using native UHD. zooming in at 1080p doesn't trigger it.
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Old 24th March 2016, 17:08   #37099  |  Link
chros
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here a sample with a 3D LUT.
http://www.file-upload.net/download-...nissue.7z.html

after loading the 3D LUT you can toggle it with shift+control+3

i can't trigger this issue without using native UHD. zooming in at 1080p doesn't trigger it.
OK, I'll try it out tomorrow on my FullHD TV just in case.
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Old 24th March 2016, 17:12   #37100  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Images say more than words. So here are a couple of comparison screenshots, showing what Anti-Bloating does when used with AdaptiveSharpen:

original - | - no sharpening - | - AdaptiveSharpen 1.5 - | - AS 3.0 applied in 2x supersampling - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 50% - | - AS 1.5 + Anti-Bloating 100% - | - AS 0.5
Neat. That bloated look was always what kept me away from using other sharpeners than SuperRes.
However, with just SuperRes alone, Anti-Bloating seems not necessary to me.
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