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Old 8th June 2015, 00:02   #30841  |  Link
MysteryX
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Another test for 360p on 768p display...

Option 1:
Chroma Jinc+AR
Upscaling Jinc+AR
Refinement LumaSharpen
Rendering: 10.3ms

Options 2:
Chroma Bicubic(75)
Upscaling NEDI+Bicubic(75)+AR
Refinement LumaSharpen + SuperRes NEDI defaults 1 pass
At strength .70, it's very close but slightly better. I can get away with strength .75 and that definitely looks better.
Rendering: 11.9ms

Option 2 is just still slightly too demanding and I get dropped frames with SVP... so I'll have to stay with option 1. But otherwise, Option 2 would be better.

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 06:05.
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Old 8th June 2015, 00:06   #30842  |  Link
iSunrise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
...You know, sometimes I wonder if madVR does too much when it tries to improve image quality. The original film image, when played with WMP without madVR rendering, using only LAV decoders looks sharper than madVR's image without LumaSharpen.
If everything else is the same, which I doubt, you might just have found a bug, worth looking into. madVR only should do what you tell it to do and WMP playback sounds like DXVA, which in turn sounds like either your graphics card's settings come into play or you are not comparing the same settings. What happens if you compare with MPC-HC and you switch between EVR and madVR? Same result as you see with WMP vs. madVR?

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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I need to figure out how to create side by side comparisons shots using different madVR settings. Otherwise its hard to backup what I am saying...
Screenshots, lots of screenshots. You can compare them with StaxRip's image comparison tool for example, very helpful and fast.
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Old 8th June 2015, 00:13   #30843  |  Link
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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
LOL! That is exactly the same content I used to test Shiandow's debanding and all other madVR features as far as Low / Medium Quality content goes.
why didn't you test a debanding filter on banding? for example the background has some.

Quote:
I disagree though. I sit about 8 feet away from my 40" 1080p HDTV and with my settings + 12bit color depth on my HDTV, the result is much better with madVR de-banding because it leaves enough detail to see the outline of black/dark parts of the image. For example, Captain/Major/Kernel Samantha Carter often wears black tops. With madVR's debanding set to Medium on top and High on bottom, I can see the outline of her boobies when she wears a black top, but with Shiandow's, her chest looks flat and un-sexish.
what banding are you planning on removing anyway?

the main feature of 10 bit output is less banding. but when i see how you talking about the use of a debanding filter i'm not sure if you even know what that is.

Quote:
Sure that detail is quite LQ, but as long as you use the highest quality settings and sit reasonably far enough away, madVR's debanding does an excellent job.

Quote:
Regarding new features. SuperRes is definitely here to stay! I figured that LumaSharpen for Upscaling does very little, but for Image Enhancement it does quite a lot at its default setting. The same exact content I talked about above (SMPTE 170M) looks a bit too sharp with default Image Enhancement LumaSharpen values. I decrease strength to 0.50 and clam to 0.30 and its much better!
this is a new feature i don't see any change it will be removed.
this is totally different with debanding a debanding filter was already there. so the question was which do more people like.

Quote:
You know, sometimes I wonder if madVR does too much when it tries to improve image quality. The original film image, when played with WMP without madVR rendering, using only LAV decoders looks sharper than madVR's image without LumaSharpen. However, vanilla image also has banding, artifacts, pixelation, etc. madVR HQ rendering settings fix all those vanilla issues and leave the image soft. Then LumaSharpen offsets the softness, but the end image looks both - 1. better IMO and 2. different from the original. The original/vanilla image sharpness looks more natural than madVR + LumaSharpen. I have not been able to restore that vanilla sharpness with any madVR settings.
first of all madVR does nothing unnecessary to the image and it outputting it as original as possible unlike crappy WMP.

WMP uses dxva so all the damaging algo from your GPU are altering the image which is just clearly bad.

Quote:
I need to figure out how to create side by side comparisons shots using different madVR settings. Otherwise its hard to backup what I am saying...
how about screenshoots?
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Old 8th June 2015, 00:47   #30844  |  Link
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And yes, superres seems to work extremely well on high-def videos. I feel like superres acts on a tiny radius (0.5) and successfully brings those details out.

Why does superres have multiple passes anyway? I don't understand the benefit

Last edited by JarrettH; 8th June 2015 at 00:55.
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Old 8th June 2015, 01:58   #30845  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
Maybe in 353.06 this option is not available.
because you can't choice 10 or 12 bit i don't see a huge need for this setting anyway.

nvidia will output 12 bit if possible with a 10 bit input signal if not it will dither the 10 bit input signal to 8 bit. except for forcing 8 bit output i don't see any benefits with this setting at all (if it even forces 8 bit at all.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
And yes, superres seems to work extremely well on high-def videos. I feel like superres acts on a tiny radius (0.5) and successfully brings those details out.

Why does superres have multiple passes anyway? I don't understand the benefit
i don't like more than 1 pass maybe 2 passes it looks not good to my eyes. but it does a very good job with 1 pass.
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Old 8th June 2015, 03:11   #30846  |  Link
MysteryX
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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I need to figure out how to create side by side comparisons shots using different madVR settings. Otherwise its hard to backup what I am saying...
Print Screen and paste in Photoshop.

When you edit madVR settings, it instantly takes effect in the player so you can take a different screenshot right away without having to move to a different frame.

Ah! I just figured out that if I disable "fullscreen exclusive mode", I can take screenshots in fullscreen!

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 06:04.
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Old 8th June 2015, 07:42   #30847  |  Link
wiFFy
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I think there's still an issue with NNEDI3 image quadrupling on Nvidia, occasionally driver still gets stuck in slow P2 state (but without any visible corruption).
Question is if it is caused by madVR or by the 352.xx driver series (Windows 8.1 x64), which seems a bit unstable.
I'd need to find a completely reproducible scenario to provoke the unwanted bahvior, I guess...
350.12 driver worked for me, 352.86 and 353.06 started getting randomly(?) stuck on low power state. I've been using this as a band-aid to quickly restart the driver.

On a unrelated matter, the quality that SuperRes produces is absolutely ! I've been mostly testing it on 720p->1080p upscale with lanczos 3 AR w/ SR for chroma and image. My Geforce 840m can't handle NNEDI3 or NEDI without basically stripping all the other goodies out, but I can't say that I feel like I'm missing out.

If I would have to describe the picture it produces in one word, it would be calm. If you compare it to other sharpeners you can't really see the best side of it in screenshots. I don't know the right technical terms for describing the effect or lack of it. But I find the other sharpeners producing extremely annoying un-natural "digital" artifacts in motion, when the video is playing. SuperRes is mostly free of that, until you push the settings to completely over the top, oversharpened level.

On top of that, I also greatly enjoy the perceived 3d/pop-up-effect it produces on my brain.

-EDIT: These comments were made about 1 pass SR with medium quality. Don't have the processing power for hq or more passes. I don't really care for comparing image quality on screenshots. If I can't see the difference in motion, I don't bother with it.

Great job with these recent releases, Madshi!

Last edited by wiFFy; 8th June 2015 at 08:01. Reason: Typos to the max!
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Old 8th June 2015, 07:43   #30848  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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Is there a reason why I can't select Jinc for downscaling and am forced to use Spline? The option is there, but it's greyed out.
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Old 8th June 2015, 07:57   #30849  |  Link
Anima123
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Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
Is there a reason why I can't select Jinc for downscaling and am forced to use Spline? The option is there, but it's greyed out.
madVR does not support Jinc for downscaling for now, as I checked last time.
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:02   #30850  |  Link
ikarad
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
because you can't choice 10 or 12 bit i don't see a huge need for this setting anyway.

nvidia will output 12 bit if possible with a 10 bit input signal if not it will dither the 10 bit input signal to 8 bit. except for forcing 8 bit output i don't see any benefits with this setting at all (if it even forces 8 bit at all.).


.
The problem is not if it's needing or not needing but why this option deosn't exist on my computer.
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:36   #30851  |  Link
huhn
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what's your GPU?
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:50   #30852  |  Link
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what's your gpu?
gtx780
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Old 8th June 2015, 13:12   #30853  |  Link
JackCY
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
NEDI is also nice enough to take care of chroma while it's at it so we got winning combos here IMHO. I haven't truly experimented with SR on chroma yet, though but last time I tried I didn't seem to like it.
Personally I don't see any changes when using more expensive chroma upscaling, nonetheless I set it to the same I use for image upscaling since it doesn't eat much power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
LOL! That is exactly the same content I used to test Shiandow's debanding and all other madVR features as far as Low / Medium Quality content goes.

I disagree though. I sit about 8 feet away from my 40" 1080p HDTV and with my settings + 12bit color depth on my HDTV, the result is much better with madVR de-banding because it leaves enough detail to see the outline of black/dark parts of the image. For example, Captain/Major/Kernel Samantha Carter often wears black tops. With madVR's debanding set to Medium on top and High on bottom, I can see the outline of her boobies when she wears a black top, but with Shiandow's, her chest looks flat and un-sexish.

Sure that detail is quite LQ, but as long as you use the highest quality settings and sit reasonably far enough away, madVR's debanding does an excellent job.


Regarding new features. SuperRes is definitely here to stay! I figured that LumaSharpen for Upscaling does very little, but for Image Enhancement it does quite a lot at its default setting. The same exact content I talked about above (SMPTE 170M) looks a bit too sharp with default Image Enhancement LumaSharpen values. I decrease strength to 0.50 and clam to 0.30 and its much better!


You know, sometimes I wonder if madVR does too much when it tries to improve image quality. The original film image, when played with WMP without madVR rendering, using only LAV decoders looks sharper than madVR's image without LumaSharpen. However, vanilla image also has banding, artifacts, pixelation, etc. madVR HQ rendering settings fix all those vanilla issues and leave the image soft. Then LumaSharpen offsets the softness, but the end image looks both - 1. better IMO and 2. different from the original. The original/vanilla image sharpness looks more natural than madVR + LumaSharpen. I have not been able to restore that vanilla sharpness with any madVR settings.

I need to figure out how to create side by side comparisons shots using different madVR settings. Otherwise its hard to backup what I am saying...
I'm pretty close (arm length) to a monitor, not TV, so I see all the harsh and rough there is because there simply isn't better quality available to play. cca 2.5x upscale is a lot and it makes all the "small" details on 480p look huge upscaled to 1080p especially after SuperRes (SR). Some of the image is even bad because the master was low quality as well, practically all effects scenes are low quality, it's how it was made, shot on film (S01-07) and effects added in LQ since the target was TV and DVD, not HD or FHD at the time.

Damn what TV has 12bit? That's pretty ridiculous considering above 6-8bit one can't really tell the difference without pixel peeping anyway.
Yeah Madhi's leaves more detail but in the case of this 480p content even High removes nearly nothing, literally, as the banding and rough parts have too high step/contrast to get caught for removal by Madhi's alg. Where as Shiandow doesn't use such strict selection and applies easily to everything. Sure it washes out some detail away, inevitable price for reducing the rough detail the small detail gets taken too, hence I add grain to so the rough parts that remain don't look as prominent compared to the rest that is "washed".

Tried the Lumasharpen values, lowered, SR first otherwise SR will mask the sharpen as it does mask lower Q upscale algorithms. Don't like Sharpen, SR is enough for me.

I'm not sure I even have WMP installed, but it's simple to switch to other renderers in MPC and see how the colors are interpreted differently, with madVR supposedly and IMHO interpreting them more correctly. And other renderers also use other tricks such as more vivid colors apart from them being shifted, maybe even some sharpen, who knows, depends on renderer selected. Sure hey it's watchable, most of us did use them before.

To me all madVR seems to do compared to EVR CP is properly represent colors and allows to use better scaling alg. Plus now the added features for debanding and sharpening. I don't get any softening of the image or something unless you count the better scaling as softening the image, or the added aggressive deband. Then sure that's normal for these alg. But by default there doesn't seem to be any added softening or some such, if I would select equal scaling alg. and disable extra features in madVR it would look the same as EVR CP except for the color. I have all performance options disabled in madVR.
I use LAV with DXVA2 native (dxva2n). Read for some old madVR that this wasn't supported but I don't see any difference when I switch to software (avcodec) and everything seems to work fine for any LAV decoder selected.

Post screenshots of the same frame in PNG or other lossless with lossless upload.
There is http://screenshotcomparison.com/ for mouse over but it's a little meh to use, I prefer to click, ctrl+tab etc. instead.

That's what I use:

EVR CP, makes colors vivid as always, whether it interprets the color space right I don't know but the vividness is bad enough already:

Highest Q madVR without deband and SR:

Highest Q madVR with only madshi deband, has almost no effect except a couple parts in background top right:


madVR to me looks sharper and less artifacted due to better scaling alg. even NNEDI3-16 is enough to get better/less antialiased edges at 2x or more upscale.
At equal alg. the sharpness would be equal. But with madVR one doesn't have to hunt for shaders and can simply add deband and SuperRes now.

No shaders used in any of the pics, I don't use shaders.
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:01   #30854  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyDog View Post
If you're looking for feedback for LumaSharpen madshi, I remember seeing this post a few weeks ago and it seems to have been lost amongst the influx of new stuff happening at the time.

The first two points are certainly important things for you to look into. In the original SweetFX thread opinion was unanimous that Pattern 3 was better for video than Pattern 2.
I'm already using the latest code and Pattern 3. Never used anything else.

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Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
There is an issue with 0.88.10 and 0.88.11: the playback freezes sometimes. It happens to me a couple of times on two different BDRemuxes. The issue is unstable; I've tried to reproduce it later (same video, same time, same player, etc.) but had no luck. Maybe the issue was introduced in one of the earlier 0.88.x builds - I can't use them on the regular basis because of http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=284. But I've never experienced it on 0.87.14. WinXP, GF 8800 GT, driver v340.52.
XP, euwh.

Ok, if these freezes occur, does the media player still react to you? e.g. does the menu open? Do the buttons react? Or is it totally frozen? If it's totally frozen, try to create a freeze report by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break/Pause. Maybe that could help me figuring out what's going on.

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Originally Posted by nlnl View Post
Tested new image ehancement option using this image https://cloud.mail.ru/public/AbGY/UwuASurxH

Can not see horisontal lines when FS OFF and the same with SuperRes filter OFF for chroma upsampling.
Not sure I understand your conclusion. Which horizontal lines do you mean and do you want to see them or not? And you're talking about FS and SuperRes, but I'm not sure if you like either or not.

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Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Now that we moved on to Image Refinement, may I ask - what exactly is the different between LumaSharpen, FineSharp, and SuperRes? I assume they deal with increasing sharpness, which is a bit odd because AFAIK madVR was all about making the image as soft as possible.
madVR was never about making the image "soft". It was always about rendering the image as accurately as possible. If you display movies at 1:1 pixel mapping, nothing has changed and all the "upscaling refinement" options don't have any effect. I've explained all the reasoning for these algorithms in the "feedback" post (the one right after the v88.11 release post). Read that again, please. A lot is explained in there.

LumaSharpen und FineSharp are straight image sharpening algorithms. SuperRes also sharpens, but that's only one part of it, more details see Shiandow's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
If quadrupling resolution, would it be better to run SuperRes twice with 1 pass or once with 2 passes?
Again, please read the "feedback" post (the one right after the v88.11 release post). I've explained a lot there, and I don't feel like explaining it all again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I tested default settings LumaSharpen (Image Enhancement) and default settings FineSharp (Image Enhancement) with both HQ and MQ content, but I did not like either at all. Both features made dithering, noise, blockiness, banding, or artifacts more obvious/visible/emphasized in MQ, LQ, and even moderately HQ content. Its like these settings canceled all the madVR's image improvement through softness. LumaSharpen and FineSharp were only helpful in absolute best HQ content (full BD's, not rips). I have not tested LumaSharpen and FineSharp Upscaling Refinement.
The "image enhancement" options are only meant to be used for sources that are very soft to begin with. If your sources are reasonably sharp, or if they have lots of compression artifacts, then sharpening them might not be such a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
Again, I love SuperRes but it is expensive to run, and somehow it is much more expensive than it should on 480p videos.
I'm not terribly worried about performance issues at this point, I'm mainly interested in image quality discussions. Maybe performance can be improved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
With 88.11 mpc-hc the queues emptying and will NOT filling back up after I seek, thus the videos stuttering after seeking.
I need to pause or exit full screen (not FSE) to "refresh" the queues.

EDIT:
Sometimes it happen all by itself without seeking.

EDIT2:
*On secondary screen only!
Not enough information. Is this a new problem with v0.88.11? Or did you always have this problem? Is it specific to DX11 presentation? Or does it also occr with DX9? Which queues are not filling exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i never saw a picture where anti ring even at 1.0 would harm the picture. i totally love it!

upscaler is currently jinc 3 LL AR.
It's interesting that you use linear light. Since you have the SuperRes AR set to such a high value, do you still need to use Jinc AR at all? Or could you go with straight Jinc instead and let SuperRes take care of the ringing? Just wondering, haven't tried that myself yet...

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Originally Posted by XRyche View Post
That's weird. I found SuperRes to make quality considerably worse with super lo-res material (240-360p) . The more passes I have it do the worse the effect. Most of my super lo-res material is DVR/TIVO/VHS/Capture card rips from late 90's to mid 2000's. Needless to say they aren't pristine, tbh though, I don't think you will get pristine image quality at those resolution anyways. If there is any type of blocking or aliasing it makes matters worse. When I try to compensate with increasing softness or anti-alaising it creates very weird artifacts. I lack the knowledge to properly describe it but, it looks like I put plastic wrap over my screen. Strange distortions on edges and such. This is leaving the settings at default. It gets much worse when increasing softness or anti-alaising to compensate.
Could you maybe upload a sample where these weird effects/distortions are especially strong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistahBonzai View Post
As XRyche noted SuperRes introduces some strange distortions to the image edges (in my case the text overlay) as I cranked up the passes. It appeared to add a somewhat opaque overlay while adding extra edges outside the original text edges (not ringing - just sorta smudged out with faint new edges).
A sample would be great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baii View Post
Seem like only works when scale factor >2 when rule is "if (scalingFactor.x > 1 )"

480p to windowed 15,0,2404,1264 or full screen 1,0,2561,1440- works
720p to windowed "" - not works
720p to full screen 1,0,2561,1440 - works
1080p or 800p scale to any size(meaning less than 1440p) - not works

confirmed by toggling options on the fly and pull up setting menu in windowed mode.

edit: hmm.. rule change to "if (scalingFactor.x > 0.9 )" and everything seem to work correct~
edit2: hmm nvm, "if (scalingFactor.x > 0.9 )" isnt it~
Could you please report this to the bug tracker? Not sure when I'll find the time to fix it.

http://madVR.bugs.madshi.net

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I need to figure out how to create side by side comparisons shots using different madVR settings. Otherwise its hard to backup what I am saying...
Please don't use "side-by-side", please use separate screenshots for each configuration - but it has to be exactly the same video frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Why does superres have multiple passes anyway? I don't understand the benefit
One part of the SuperRes algorithm compares the "final" result with the original image before upscaling, and then tries to substract any "errors" from the final image, compared to the original image. Something like this sometimes works better in multiple passes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I only just had the opportunity to start doing some testing today (only had the time spare to even watch one film this whole month) and my initial thoughts are similar to yours.

Madshi's debanding seems very good at low levels, but Shiandow's seems to look more natural at high levels of debanding - especially with the "add grain" option enabled. At higher strengths, Madshi's debanding can start to look artificial.
Though Shiandow's debanding may lose more detail (I need to spend more time tweaking to see whether that is actually the case) it looks natural when that happens - with filmed footage at least. I haven't tested any animated content - where Madshi's deband may still fare better.
Unfortunately I've already made my decision. The last round of feedback was in favor of madVR's original debanding algorithm. huhn also found and documented an artifact of Shiandow's algorithm in motion, which madVR's algo didn't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Before I can post a v0.88.11 is released and Shiandow deband is removed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Don't know why such a useful post-processing is suddenly removed soon after it was added.
I'm keeping v0.88.10 for sure.
Well, the Shiandow deband algorithm was in madVR for nearly a full month, and feedback had been coming in all the time in that month. At some point I had to finish the feedback "phase" and make a decision about what to do.

I have always been saying right from the start that the Shiandow deband algorithm will not stay as a separate algorithm. The only question was whether it would replace the original deband algorithm partially or fully or not at all. After all the feedback I decided to keep the original algorithm, so the Shiandow algo had to go. Too many options are not good for the majority of users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
It's useful, it's stronger than high settings of the artifact removal and Shiandow works sort of as clear skin, removing as much or as little as you want of the harshness from images.
But that's not what a deband filter should do. A deband filter should remove banding and nothing else. If you want a filter that removes harshness from images then that should be a separate filter, with a suitable name which describes what it does. And then it should be tested for that purpose exactly by all users and tuned to produce good results. None of that has happened here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
As you can see above, Madshi's does pretty much nothing on rough LQ content even at High, but Shiandow serves nicely to "wash" the image, which true removes a bit of contrast but the rough detail is reduced as much as you like. As long as margin is minimal it's not that crazy with altering features of faces and objects.
Ouch. From what I can see in your images, with the settings you're using, the Shiandow deband quite drastically alters the look of the image. In my eyes you not only lose some contrast, but also quite a bit of detail. Maybe you find the look of the image more pleasing this way. But this is definitely *not* what a deband filter should do, or what Shiandow has intended the algorithm for.
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:04   #30855  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by SecurityBunny View Post
Debug log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi8yiom7xc...20log.txt?dl=0

Same results as before - unfilled queues with high prepresented frames.
Yeah, looks exactly as expected. Will have to do some more test builds. Stay tuned...
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:09   #30856  |  Link
madshi
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Thanks everyone for your FEEDBACK so far, appreciated!

Some conclusions I could draw from your combined feedback:

1) The SuperRes "high error upscaling quality" can be deleted.
2) Some users like FineSharp a lot, others not at all. <sigh>
3) Most users found LumaSharpen to be moderately useful, although not perfect.
4) With some sources sharpening before upscaling doesn't work well.
5) SuperRes seems to be well liked, but performance hungry.

My impression is that - although we've made some progress - we won't get to where we want to get, with everyone testing everything. I fear my last feedback request was too broad and not specific enough. Would you guys agree? I'm wondering whether we should switch two gears back and simply start by looking at one algorithm at a time, to reduce each algorithm's complexity first, before looking at how they interact. E.g. we could start with FineSharp, looking at all the available options, and reducing them to a low/med/high. Then move on to LumaSharpen etc. Doing this would also make testing of the combined effects of all algos easier. Or what do you guys think?
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:20   #30857  |  Link
JackCY
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I have always been saying right from the start that the Shiandow deband algorithm will not stay as a separate algorithm. The only question was whether it would replace the original deband algorithm partially or fully or not at all. After all the feedback I decided to keep the original algorithm, so the Shiandow algo had to go. Too many options are not good for the majority of users.
I get that, is it or can it be available as a shader for MPC/MPCHC?

Or does anyone know if a similar shader that would "soften" rough textures/gradients but preserve edges?

Quote:
But that's not what a deband filter should do. A deband filter should remove banding and nothing else. If you want a filter that removes harshness from images then that should be a separate filter, with a suitable name which describes what it does. And then it should be tested for that purpose exactly by all users and tuned to produce good results. None of that has happened here.

Ouch. From what I can see in your images, with the settings you're using, the Shiandow deband quite drastically alters the look of the image. In my eyes you not only lose some contrast, but also quite a bit of detail. Maybe you find the look of the image more pleasing this way. But this is definitely *not* what a deband filter should do, or what Shiandow has intended the algorithm for.
I know. My use of it is not what it was made for originally. Only showing that it can be useful nonetheless for something else.

---
SuperRes is great even if it eats a decent amount of power, with how it works the loss off power is easily compensated by a use of simpler upscaling which doesn't affect the image much when SR is enabled.
I like more options and algorithms present rather than only one with a low/med/high preset. Presets are fine, but IMHO shouldn't replace the options, it would be nice if the presets could be set to other values, as in offer not only load but also save, one could change the presets to his own values.
And I can't stress enough, please editable boxes instead of only two buttons that move by 0.01 or other small step that is not perceptible and takes forever to move the value from 0.00 to 1.00. I've tried ctrl+click, shift+click but nothing seems to increase the step.

Last edited by JackCY; 8th June 2015 at 19:38.
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:30   #30858  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
My impression is that - although we've made some progress - we won't get to where we want to get, with everyone testing everything. I fear my last feedback request was too broad and not specific enough. Would you guys agree? I'm wondering whether we should switch two gears back and simply start by looking at one algorithm at a time, to reduce each algorithm's complexity first, before looking at how they interact. E.g. we could start with FineSharp, looking at all the available options, and reducing them to a low/med/high. Then move on to LumaSharpen etc. Doing this would also make testing of the combined effects of all algos easier. Or what do you guys think?
If you want people to test one thing, you need to give them one thing, and one thing only. By adding all the features at once to madVR, you will spark their interest. They are not going to stop testing all the toys and just focus on one at a time.

That ship has sailed now, I guess, but if you plan 5 new features in the future, maybe add them one at a time and wait for feedback in between.
Best you can do now is like you said, try to test one thing at a time anyway!
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 8th June 2015 at 20:05.
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:30   #30859  |  Link
huhn
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i find it hard to find something that is good in general.

for example you can easily move superres sharping to one of the sharpening filter when the sharpening from superres is not what you want.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's interesting that you use linear light. Since you have the SuperRes AR set to such a high value, do you still need to use Jinc AR at all? Or could you go with straight Jinc instead and let SuperRes take care of the ringing? Just wondering, haven't tried that myself yet...
i have AR on 1.0 in general i haven't found any issue with it at this setting what so ever. and even jinc3 LL AR looked totally fine.
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Old 8th June 2015, 19:39   #30860  |  Link
SecurityBunny
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yeah, looks exactly as expected. Will have to do some more test builds. Stay tuned...
Sure thing. On stand-by.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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