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8th June 2015, 00:02 | #30841 | Link |
Soul Architect
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Another test for 360p on 768p display...
Option 1: Chroma Jinc+AR Upscaling Jinc+AR Refinement LumaSharpen Rendering: 10.3ms Options 2: Chroma Bicubic(75) Upscaling NEDI+Bicubic(75)+AR Refinement LumaSharpen + SuperRes NEDI defaults 1 pass At strength .70, it's very close but slightly better. I can get away with strength .75 and that definitely looks better. Rendering: 11.9ms Option 2 is just still slightly too demanding and I get dropped frames with SVP... so I'll have to stay with option 1. But otherwise, Option 2 would be better.
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FrameRateConverter | AvisynthShader | AvsFilterNet | Natural Grounding Player with Yin Media Encoder, 432hz Player, Powerliminals Player and Audio Video Muxer Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 06:05. |
8th June 2015, 00:06 | #30842 | Link | |
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Screenshots, lots of screenshots. You can compare them with StaxRip's image comparison tool for example, very helpful and fast. |
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8th June 2015, 00:13 | #30843 | Link | ||||||
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the main feature of 10 bit output is less banding. but when i see how you talking about the use of a debanding filter i'm not sure if you even know what that is. Quote:
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this is totally different with debanding a debanding filter was already there. so the question was which do more people like. Quote:
WMP uses dxva so all the damaging algo from your GPU are altering the image which is just clearly bad. Quote:
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8th June 2015, 00:47 | #30844 | Link |
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And yes, superres seems to work extremely well on high-def videos. I feel like superres acts on a tiny radius (0.5) and successfully brings those details out.
Why does superres have multiple passes anyway? I don't understand the benefit Last edited by JarrettH; 8th June 2015 at 00:55. |
8th June 2015, 01:58 | #30845 | Link |
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because you can't choice 10 or 12 bit i don't see a huge need for this setting anyway.
nvidia will output 12 bit if possible with a 10 bit input signal if not it will dither the 10 bit input signal to 8 bit. except for forcing 8 bit output i don't see any benefits with this setting at all (if it even forces 8 bit at all.). i don't like more than 1 pass maybe 2 passes it looks not good to my eyes. but it does a very good job with 1 pass. |
8th June 2015, 03:11 | #30846 | Link | |
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When you edit madVR settings, it instantly takes effect in the player so you can take a different screenshot right away without having to move to a different frame. Ah! I just figured out that if I disable "fullscreen exclusive mode", I can take screenshots in fullscreen!
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FrameRateConverter | AvisynthShader | AvsFilterNet | Natural Grounding Player with Yin Media Encoder, 432hz Player, Powerliminals Player and Audio Video Muxer Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 06:04. |
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8th June 2015, 07:42 | #30847 | Link | |
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On a unrelated matter, the quality that SuperRes produces is absolutely ! I've been mostly testing it on 720p->1080p upscale with lanczos 3 AR w/ SR for chroma and image. My Geforce 840m can't handle NNEDI3 or NEDI without basically stripping all the other goodies out, but I can't say that I feel like I'm missing out. If I would have to describe the picture it produces in one word, it would be calm. If you compare it to other sharpeners you can't really see the best side of it in screenshots. I don't know the right technical terms for describing the effect or lack of it. But I find the other sharpeners producing extremely annoying un-natural "digital" artifacts in motion, when the video is playing. SuperRes is mostly free of that, until you push the settings to completely over the top, oversharpened level. On top of that, I also greatly enjoy the perceived 3d/pop-up-effect it produces on my brain. -EDIT: These comments were made about 1 pass SR with medium quality. Don't have the processing power for hq or more passes. I don't really care for comparing image quality on screenshots. If I can't see the difference in motion, I don't bother with it. Great job with these recent releases, Madshi! Last edited by wiFFy; 8th June 2015 at 08:01. Reason: Typos to the max! |
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8th June 2015, 12:02 | #30850 | Link | |
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8th June 2015, 13:12 | #30853 | Link | ||
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Damn what TV has 12bit? That's pretty ridiculous considering above 6-8bit one can't really tell the difference without pixel peeping anyway. Yeah Madhi's leaves more detail but in the case of this 480p content even High removes nearly nothing, literally, as the banding and rough parts have too high step/contrast to get caught for removal by Madhi's alg. Where as Shiandow doesn't use such strict selection and applies easily to everything. Sure it washes out some detail away, inevitable price for reducing the rough detail the small detail gets taken too, hence I add grain to so the rough parts that remain don't look as prominent compared to the rest that is "washed". Tried the Lumasharpen values, lowered, SR first otherwise SR will mask the sharpen as it does mask lower Q upscale algorithms. Don't like Sharpen, SR is enough for me. I'm not sure I even have WMP installed, but it's simple to switch to other renderers in MPC and see how the colors are interpreted differently, with madVR supposedly and IMHO interpreting them more correctly. And other renderers also use other tricks such as more vivid colors apart from them being shifted, maybe even some sharpen, who knows, depends on renderer selected. Sure hey it's watchable, most of us did use them before. To me all madVR seems to do compared to EVR CP is properly represent colors and allows to use better scaling alg. Plus now the added features for debanding and sharpening. I don't get any softening of the image or something unless you count the better scaling as softening the image, or the added aggressive deband. Then sure that's normal for these alg. But by default there doesn't seem to be any added softening or some such, if I would select equal scaling alg. and disable extra features in madVR it would look the same as EVR CP except for the color. I have all performance options disabled in madVR. I use LAV with DXVA2 native (dxva2n). Read for some old madVR that this wasn't supported but I don't see any difference when I switch to software (avcodec) and everything seems to work fine for any LAV decoder selected. Post screenshots of the same frame in PNG or other lossless with lossless upload. There is http://screenshotcomparison.com/ for mouse over but it's a little meh to use, I prefer to click, ctrl+tab etc. instead. That's what I use: EVR CP, makes colors vivid as always, whether it interprets the color space right I don't know but the vividness is bad enough already: Highest Q madVR without deband and SR: Highest Q madVR with only madshi deband, has almost no effect except a couple parts in background top right: madVR to me looks sharper and less artifacted due to better scaling alg. even NNEDI3-16 is enough to get better/less antialiased edges at 2x or more upscale. At equal alg. the sharpness would be equal. But with madVR one doesn't have to hunt for shaders and can simply add deband and SuperRes now. No shaders used in any of the pics, I don't use shaders. |
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8th June 2015, 19:01 | #30854 | Link | |||||||||||||||||||
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Ok, if these freezes occur, does the media player still react to you? e.g. does the menu open? Do the buttons react? Or is it totally frozen? If it's totally frozen, try to create a freeze report by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break/Pause. Maybe that could help me figuring out what's going on. Quote:
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LumaSharpen und FineSharp are straight image sharpening algorithms. SuperRes also sharpens, but that's only one part of it, more details see Shiandow's post. Quote:
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http://madVR.bugs.madshi.net Quote:
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I have always been saying right from the start that the Shiandow deband algorithm will not stay as a separate algorithm. The only question was whether it would replace the original deband algorithm partially or fully or not at all. After all the feedback I decided to keep the original algorithm, so the Shiandow algo had to go. Too many options are not good for the majority of users. Quote:
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8th June 2015, 19:04 | #30855 | Link | |
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8th June 2015, 19:09 | #30856 | Link |
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Thanks everyone for your FEEDBACK so far, appreciated!
Some conclusions I could draw from your combined feedback: 1) The SuperRes "high error upscaling quality" can be deleted. 2) Some users like FineSharp a lot, others not at all. <sigh> 3) Most users found LumaSharpen to be moderately useful, although not perfect. 4) With some sources sharpening before upscaling doesn't work well. 5) SuperRes seems to be well liked, but performance hungry. My impression is that - although we've made some progress - we won't get to where we want to get, with everyone testing everything. I fear my last feedback request was too broad and not specific enough. Would you guys agree? I'm wondering whether we should switch two gears back and simply start by looking at one algorithm at a time, to reduce each algorithm's complexity first, before looking at how they interact. E.g. we could start with FineSharp, looking at all the available options, and reducing them to a low/med/high. Then move on to LumaSharpen etc. Doing this would also make testing of the combined effects of all algos easier. Or what do you guys think? |
8th June 2015, 19:20 | #30857 | Link | ||
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Or does anyone know if a similar shader that would "soften" rough textures/gradients but preserve edges? Quote:
--- SuperRes is great even if it eats a decent amount of power, with how it works the loss off power is easily compensated by a use of simpler upscaling which doesn't affect the image much when SR is enabled. I like more options and algorithms present rather than only one with a low/med/high preset. Presets are fine, but IMHO shouldn't replace the options, it would be nice if the presets could be set to other values, as in offer not only load but also save, one could change the presets to his own values. And I can't stress enough, please editable boxes instead of only two buttons that move by 0.01 or other small step that is not perceptible and takes forever to move the value from 0.00 to 1.00. I've tried ctrl+click, shift+click but nothing seems to increase the step. Last edited by JackCY; 8th June 2015 at 19:38. |
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8th June 2015, 19:30 | #30858 | Link | |
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That ship has sailed now, I guess, but if you plan 5 new features in the future, maybe add them one at a time and wait for feedback in between. Best you can do now is like you said, try to test one thing at a time anyway!
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 8th June 2015 at 20:05. |
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8th June 2015, 19:30 | #30859 | Link | |
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i find it hard to find something that is good in general.
for example you can easily move superres sharping to one of the sharpening filter when the sharpening from superres is not what you want. Quote:
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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