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19th May 2015, 15:03 | #30201 | Link | |||||
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dithering error diffusion vs ordered dithering and waifu2 vs NNEDI3
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The old test here (for those not familiar with it) is to go into madVR display settings and change the bit-depth for the monitor to anything from 1 to 4 bit (which will make the dithering effects visible), and then toggle through the different dithering patterns to find which effect(s) you like the look of best. The difference between Error Diffusion and Ordered Dithering is pretty insignificant. When you change your madVR display setting back to 8 or 10-bit depth the patterns should completely disappear (making the choice even more insignificant). Quote:
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Perhaps your source video is the problem. If the source/video is lower bit than the screen you're displaying on then you're going to get a worse quality picture/video than you would if the source matched your screen bit depth. Having a 10-bit source is ideal for displaying 10-bit mode on a 10-bit screen. If you think you can see dithering with your madVR settings set to 8 or 10-bit for your screen do the bit changing test I posted above. Toggle through each setting from 1-bit all the way to 10-bit in your madVR settings, and see how the dithering effects become less and less noticeable. Once you get to 5 or 6-bit you shouldn't be able to see the dithering pattern/effects any longer. Still think you're seeing dithering? Its far more likely that you've got a bad/noisy/grainy/garbage filled source or your scaling choices are adding artifacts to the video.
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV. Last edited by Anime Viewer; 19th May 2015 at 15:22. Reason: added reply to XMonarchY |
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19th May 2015, 15:13 | #30202 | Link | |
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You really can't compare 64 neurons without any sharpening to an image that's undergone sharpening with or without denoising. Of course some people are going to prefer an over sharpened image.. I'm not one of them. I've started a thread about it here. Last edited by ryrynz; 19th May 2015 at 15:24. |
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19th May 2015, 15:19 | #30203 | Link |
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As far as I can tell they're not using better "guesswork" they're just using far far more neurons, they also look at a larger region of the image to calculate a single pixel (hence why it's better at removing aliasing). I estimate it's at least 20x slower than NNEDI3 with 256 neurons, but even that is a very generous estimate, it could easily be 100x.
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19th May 2015, 15:43 | #30205 | Link |
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I succeed to use the 10bit , but my render and present queue are 2 and 1.
Without present a frame for every Vsync I had tons of presentation errors / with it none Any idea how to fix the render and present half queues ? Does watching movies in 10bit will be any usefulness ? what will it be good for if not for movies |
19th May 2015, 16:28 | #30206 | Link | |
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I have a Dell U2410 which is 8bit+FRC and it can receive 10bit signal easily, in fact it is what I use now in Windows 7 by default. I can select between 8 or 10bit in nvidia control panel, I use DisplayPort. Using 10bit setting in madVR is a GREAT idea for 8bit + FRC monitors. For the simple reason that FRC dithers in the refresh rate of the display, but madVR is tied to the frame rate of the video played (until of course madshi decides to change that, if ever). And because madVR does not dither the perfect integers of 10bit output but 8bit+FRC display is, so not double dithering, everything falls into place like magic. Yes, if one has a 8bit+FRC or true 10bit display that accepts 10bit signal, please use madVR in 10bit+Dithering with FSE and D3D11, you should get a better/cleaner picture (although practically invisible). Also keep windows in 10bit so that the switch to FSE is faster.
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 19th May 2015 at 16:39. |
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19th May 2015, 16:35 | #30207 | Link | |
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19th May 2015, 16:38 | #30208 | Link | |
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If the screen only accept 8bit as reported by nvidia control panel, it may very well be that the screen is actually not a 8bit+FRC but a 8bit one.
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. |
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19th May 2015, 16:40 | #30209 | Link | |
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but the eizo is know to be 8 bit FRC |
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19th May 2015, 16:41 | #30210 | Link |
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Screens also do some color processing, so it might be 8+FRC and still not accept 10-bit input. Its a gaming screen afterall..
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders |
19th May 2015, 16:51 | #30211 | Link | |
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19th May 2015, 16:52 | #30212 | Link | |
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If you're not noticing a difference between when you run in 8-bit mode compared to 10-bit mode, or you like taking screen shots of full screen video (which doesn't work in exclusive mode) then you might as well stick with the 8-bit setting(s).
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19th May 2015, 16:57 | #30213 | Link | |
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So when smooth motion is enabled the dithering by madVR can be considered of better quality than FRC. Isn't madVR leaves the steps that don't need dithering undithered? Can we say the same for FRC?
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 19th May 2015 at 17:00. |
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19th May 2015, 17:16 | #30214 | Link |
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Technically the FRC dithering could be happening at a higher rate than the overall refresh rate since it just has to toggle between two adjacent colors. One disadvantage of dithering on the monitor is it probably doesn't take into account nonlinearities in the display - e.g. for 10.5 it'll probably just alternate between 10 and 11, even if the correct ratio would be something like 25% to 75% (which madVR could account for with its linear light scaling). Admittedly the difference is likely to be small though.
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) |
19th May 2015, 17:22 | #30215 | Link | |
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19th May 2015, 17:36 | #30216 | Link | ||||
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If not, and FRC uses the refresh rate of the screen, it is the worst method by far and should be used strictly for static images.
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 19th May 2015 at 17:59. |
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19th May 2015, 17:50 | #30217 | Link |
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Regarding Debanding - I can't say one is better than the other. Just when I think one is better, I switch to a different source to see that my preference has changed. My personal preference is "less is more" so I generally prefer the lowest setting. I'd rather see a bit of banding than a washed out scene. My "vote" goes to the more efficient algo which appears to be MadVR (according to GPU-Z).
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19th May 2015, 18:18 | #30218 | Link |
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PotPlayer freeze on pause
I use PotPlayer 1.6.54133 64bit with madVR v0.88.8 (64-bit) on Windows 8.1 (64-bit).
I noticed that when I press pause the video freezes. When press pause again, the video is still frozen, but the sound is continue playing. This occurs only with 64-bit madVR D3D11 FSE mode 10bit (D3D9 FSE 8bit works well)
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19th May 2015, 18:25 | #30219 | Link |
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Debanding
After some tests in the previous days, I came to the conclusion that I have no conclusive opinion. MadVR's algo does a fine job at most cases, then there are some where Shiandow's is better. The same could be said for detail preservation, thou MadVR's high felt a bit worse overall in this regard. Overall, Shiandow's algo matches MadVR's in its latest iteration (At the beginning I preferred MadVR's, but it improved a lot. Good job, Shiandow!). If anything, the "High" preset should be tested against Shiandow's more, but I'm afraid this is all I could do.
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19th May 2015, 18:39 | #30220 | Link | |
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And banding there is terrible, 6-bit output in madVR is the only way to fight it. But this might be true for those 200+ inflated hz TV panels. |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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