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Old 20th August 2002, 08:31   #1  |  Link
xionx
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crazy anime IVTC

ok here's my problem
i've been combing the forums for days trying to solve my strange problem, but i've yet to find any info
so plz don't flame me if the answer is obvious, i tried!!
NTSC, interlaced, 3:2 pulldown
alrite, i'm working on some anime dvds that no one's touched yet
anyways, examining some of my finished products, i noticed to my dismay that when the camera pans at a certain speed, the content looks fuzzy...
curious, i ran it through nandub and noted that the fuzziness was caused by teh decombing, not doing a good job on the frames...or so i thought...
when i examined it closely, i realized that it was a kind of ghosting effect that caused the bluriness
well after tweaking decomb in every possible way, e.g. disabling post, adding area based deinterlacers, smart.. etc.
nothing worked.. the problem still remained,
i was desperate enuff that i even tried tomsmocomp, meant only for pure interlaced
that whacked my progressive frames, and still didn't fix my deinterlacing
so, finally when i went back to the original i noticed smthg rather shocking
i'd counted 3 progressive and 2 interlaced, but during the panning scene at that 'certain' speed, i'd failed to notice, that in a set of 5, 1 was a good progressive frame, 2 were fully interlaced, and the next 2, which should've been good, the bottom halves of hte frames were interlaced

so now.. i'm not quite sure what to do...
by tweaking decomb, area based and smart deinterlacer in taht order
i've been able to somewhat clean it up, but it still looks a little fuzzy

can anyone offer some advice?
thx
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Old 20th August 2002, 09:41   #2  |  Link
SSJ4_Gojita
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Might post what your avs's looked like and what anime you're doing. Some are impossible to ivtc correctly.
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Old 20th August 2002, 14:38   #3  |  Link
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What aniem are you encoding anyway?

Looks a same thing that I seen with Ranma r1. Can't be fixed.
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Old 20th August 2002, 19:46   #4  |  Link
xionx
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Kodomo no Omocha
r2 Dvds

no matter what i try on the half-interlaced frames
i always get a ghosting effect on the arms
i've been playing with area based trying to lower the edge detect, but even only fades the lines a little

so far the best setting i've found
decomb with post disabled, followed by area based, and then a smart deinterlace
anyone have any suggestions on how to fade the 'ghost' lines that i don't want without damaging the picture too much?
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Old 20th August 2002, 21:04   #5  |  Link
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It's slow, but you should try the double-framerate deinterlacing process described at 100fps.com.
If that solves the problem, you'll know that you need more optimal deinterlacer settings.
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Old 21st August 2002, 08:27   #6  |  Link
xionx
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i'm having trouble finding that double-framerate method on 100fps
perhaps i'm just blind

i've managed to reduce the problem now to 1 frame in 4 that look blurred
but its still annoying to watch

if there r enough ppl who r interested i'll post some screenshots
OUTPINGED, what was the problem in Ranma?
i also notice that in area based deinterlacer... when i lower the edge setting
it preserves the wrong edge, the one form the next frame, the interlaced one, not the edge i want
frustrating
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Old 21st August 2002, 08:34   #7  |  Link
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Screenshots won't help. Make available a small input clip (before any processing) that shows the problem.
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Old 22nd August 2002, 21:43   #8  |  Link
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ok, in a set of 4 frames, ABCD
i've foudn that decomb, telecide/decimate post=true handles all but frame B well
whereas, decomb telecide, post = false, followed by area based deinterlacer 5/30 handles frame B well, but gives the ghost on frame D
is there any way to specify exactly which frames i want decomb/area based to work on?

for the sample clip. would it be best to follow the svcd guide and create an mpeg2 sample? i'm not familiar with svcds..
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Old 22nd August 2002, 21:50   #9  |  Link
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I'm only interested in the raw input clip unprocessed by anything else.

Did you do SeparateFields() and look to see if you have blended fields?
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Old 23rd August 2002, 10:07   #10  |  Link
xionx
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i'm sorry mr. graft
i'm not sure how to cut a sample of the vobs
is there a guide to that somewhere?

as for the problem
yes the fields r blended
however
if i run decomb, it messes up one frame in 4 which area based handles well
is there a deinterlacer that can be loaded in avisynth that can deinterlace specified frames? for example, frames, 1, 5 or 4n+1? if it can do that
it'd be great
my plan woudl be to run decomb, post = false
selective deinterlace
then area based deinterlace
that should take care of the problem
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Old 23rd August 2002, 11:33   #11  |  Link
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Just import your file in avisynth, don't do any processing, and add:

trim(start_frame,-10)

Compress the frames with huffyuv in vdub, zip it, attach here.

Remeber to find a critical spot as startframe.
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Old 26th August 2002, 07:57   #12  |  Link
xionx
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ok, i cut a sample and compressed with huffyUV
5 megs though
so if u would like to help me, plz private msg me and i'll give u a link to my server

perhaps it could be easily solved if somone could point out to me
a SELECTIVE DEINTERLACER
i just need one, that i can specify EXACTLY which frames it is to work on
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Old 26th August 2002, 13:24   #13  |  Link
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@xionx

Send me the link information.
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Old 26th August 2002, 13:45   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by xionx
perhaps it could be easily solved if somone could point out to me
a SELECTIVE DEINTERLACER
i just need one, that i can specify EXACTLY which frames it is to work on
In Avisynth, you can do this with the "SelectEvery" function.
blah=SelectEvery(parameters)
DeinterlaceThingy(blah,parameters,parameters,etc)
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Old 27th August 2002, 20:23   #15  |  Link
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defiler
ur method would work great
but according to the description of the select*** function
its output is a clip created by the parameters of the function
clip = mpeg2source(blah...
temp = selectevery(clip...algorithm)
deinterlacer(temp, parameters...)

how do i merge the deinterlaced frames in temp back into clip?

i'm going to up my sample to a different host if this doesn't fix the problem

Last edited by xionx; 27th August 2002 at 21:28.
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Old 28th August 2002, 01:36   #16  |  Link
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Damn. Good question.. The trick isn't merging the two clips, it's merging the deinterlaced clip with the original without mixing up the frame order. Nothing is coming to mind.. I'll sleep on it.
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Old 28th August 2002, 09:49   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by xionx

how do i merge the deinterlaced frames in temp back into clip?
Could interleave(clips) be used - you'd have to select the opposite of your selectevery, and then make a list of the clips that has to be interleaved, until it loops.
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Old 28th August 2002, 10:14   #18  |  Link
xionx
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ok sh0dan
i see where ur going with that
and i think it just might work!
i'm going to try it out
in theory, since its only 1 frame in 4 that decomb doesn't handle so well
i think i'll use SelectEvery to create 4 temporary clips
A - 1,5,9...etc.
B - 2,6,10, etc..
C...
D...
deinterlace C separately,
interleave them, so that i preserve the original frame order
then apply decomb to the clip with teh edited C frames

perhaps it'll work... stay tuned
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