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27th March 2015, 17:08 | #13141 | Link | ||||
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You often wrote "lossely". What do you mean with that? I think you rather meant "losslessly"? Or did you mean "lossy" which would be the opposite of "losslessly"? Would you mind providing the test files you were using for these tests? They would be useful for me, and probably also for the dcadec developer. Quote:
So IMHO all those three typical 7.1 speaker channel configurations which we often see in Blu-Rays should map exactly the way they do now. And I also believe there should be no processing applied to them. I don't think the encoding houses are actually aiming for specific angles when they encode the tracks. I think they're rather rolling the dice and they always choose the layout they usually do, or by random. I think the three different 7.1 speaker channel configurations in real life make no difference. All those weird channel configurations with height speakers etc are definitely incorrect in eac3to. That's most probably my fault, not the fault of dcadec. It would be great if you could create a bug entry for that, so I won't forget about it the next time I work on eac3to. So your final conclusion would be that dcadec has losslessy decoded all tracks, and the only problem you found were channel masks you were not fully happy with? Ok, to be honest, I'm not sure how to handle those speaker configs with height channels. But I've never seen any such track in real life on any Blu-Ray yet, so it's probably not overly important. |
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27th March 2015, 17:10 | #13142 | Link | |
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Lw,Rw (-+45º) -> SL,SR (-+90º-110º) Ls,Rs (-+120º) -> BL,BR (-+150º) Maybe is better Lw,Rw (-+45º) -> FL,FR (-+30º) L,R (-+30º) -> FLC,FRC (-+15º) with a remap -4,5,2,3,0,1,6,7 and channelmask 1743 BTW, with this sources I recommend make a downmix to 5.1 FL = L + Lw FR = R + Rw
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27th March 2015, 17:36 | #13143 | Link | |
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Furthermore, as mentioned before: I don't think movie studios are doing separate mixes for separate encoding houses. I think movie studios are likely sending their 7.1 masters to the encoding houses, and they just pick "by random" either PCM, TrueHD or DTS-MA. And if they decide to use DTS-MA, they probably by random select one of the 3 different speaker configs. I don't think the encoding houses are remixing the audio master they got from the studio, based on which speaker config in the DTS-MA is selected. I don't have proof for this, but I think this is very likely. So choosing the same normal WAV channel mask for all these 3 DTS speaker assignments is IMHO the best solution in real life, although it does mean we're "ignoring" the exact speaker angles encoded in the DTS-MA stream. But as I said, I don't think they have any meaning in real life (= Blu-Ray), anyway. |
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27th March 2015, 18:33 | #13144 | Link | |
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It should be easy to eliminate possibility of a receiver/processor bug for this clip. Someone with the DTS encoder can encode the lossless output from dcadec (or Arcsoft) back to a DTS-ES discrete core + DTS-HD MA stream and I can play it back through my receiver and see if the rear channels are silent or not. |
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27th March 2015, 19:43 | #13145 | Link | |
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eac3to + arcsoft (1.1.0.0), Sonic and dcadec all decode it bitperfect to each other. Looking at the individual decoded channels one can clearly see there is an empty channel where center-back is supposed to be. ( http://someimage.com/4TQkHVH) On the other hand the LFE-channel is absolutely not only LFE, listening to it individually it sounds like any other channel (badly mastered, authored track maybe...) I haven't actually listened to the sample provided yet through my receiver. So thats left to do, using "True Direct" or whatever Marantz call it. EDIT: As this is an eac3to-thread, I would kindly ask if there is an easy possibilty to add support for opus-encoding, from the tests I've seen on avs-forum opus outperforms mp3 and AAC. Last edited by Nebudchanezzer; 27th March 2015 at 22:35. |
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28th March 2015, 04:32 | #13146 | Link | |
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For that the more important question is identify the channel layout. We can't mistake the A layout with the G layout or all the rest with "strange". Can eac3to supply this info?
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28th March 2015, 09:33 | #13147 | Link | ||
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There are 2 ways how we could test this: 1) You could temporarily convert your setup to 6.1. Not sure if you'd be willing to do that, considering that you'd have to modify your receiver setup etc, and you might lose Audyssey calibration etc. 2) Does anybody have a 6.1 channel test DTS-MA file? Playing this back on your receiver should also be interesting. You would learn exactly which 6.1 DTS-MA channel is played back by your receiver on which speaker(s). Quote:
I don't have the time to add new features atm, unless they're absolutely crucial for basic Blu-Ray remuxing. |
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28th March 2015, 11:07 | #13148 | Link |
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The Star Wars 3-disc-set of IV, V and VI are all encoded with DTS-HD MA 6.1
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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 28th March 2015 at 11:10. |
28th March 2015, 12:16 | #13149 | Link |
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Yeah, but those are not channel test files. For testing it would be crucial to have a 6.1 DTS-MA file where every channel is played sequentially like "this is the left channel", "this is the right channel" etc.
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28th March 2015, 12:54 | #13150 | Link | ||
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A71 - activeSpeakers C L R LFE Lsr Rsr Lss Rss ($84b) B71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Lh Rh ($2f) C71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Lhs Rhs ($200f) D71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Lsr Rsr ($4f) E71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Cs Ch ($9f) F71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Cs Oh ($11f) G71 - activeSpeakers C L R Ls Rs LFE Lw Rw ($40f) For me is enough than you include: (Layout $84b) (Layout $2f) (Layout $200f) (Layout $4f) (Layout $9f) (Layout $11f) (Layout $40f) Or: (C L R LFE Lsr Rsr Lss Rss) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Lh Rh) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Lhs Rhs) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Lsr Rsr) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Cs Ch) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Cs Oh) (C L R LFE Ls Rs Lw Rw) instead (strange setup)
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28th March 2015, 12:55 | #13151 | Link | |
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There are many encoders than can be used this way (Lame, oggenc, ffdcaenc, qaac, ...) eac3to can't support all parameters needed for all encoders. Use for instance: eac3to input stdout.wav | opusenc --ignorelength --bitrate 96 - output.opus (use full paths for eac3to, input, opusenc and output.opus if there aren't in the same folder. Or use a GUI like UsEac3to)
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28th March 2015, 15:12 | #13152 | Link | |
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Since I don't want to lose my Audyssey calibration by switching to a 6.1 setup, at this point I have no way of definitively determining if the blu-ray disc really has a empty rear center channel or not, but it seems most likely. |
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28th March 2015, 15:13 | #13153 | Link |
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I've done a little testing, not sure I understand the results:
1) Source: DTS-HD MA 7.1 (from Exodus BluRay): - A) to 8 wavs with Arcsoft V1.1.0.0, V1.1.0.8, and dcadec: bit-identical outputs - B) to 6 wavs (-down6) with Arcsoft V1.1.0.0, V1.1.0.8, and dcadec: bit-identical outputs excepts the surround channels LS and RS: 3 different MD5 for each (but byte identical on windows properties) ==> how is that possible ? in B), LS and RS are created from A) Lsr, Lss, Rsr, Rss, right ? since no matter the decoder used in A), the outputs are bit-identical, how can I get not-bit-identicals LS and RS in B) ?? 2) When creating 3 DTS-HD MA files from the 3 A) outputs, I get 3 bit-identical DTS-HD MA files, though not bit-identical to the 1) Source from original Bluray. When I convert each of them with the 3 decoders, I end with bit-identical files but these are not bit-identical to the A) outputs ! That files where used as inputs to make these DTS-HD MA files, so I think I should get them back as outputs, since DTS-HD MA is lossless and arcsoft dtsdecoder V1.1.0.0, V1.1.0.8, and dcadec are lossless decoders ! Something seems wrong here, maybe it's me not understanding everything ? |
28th March 2015, 16:32 | #13154 | Link | |
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MA-suite adds 1024 samples of audio at the beginning of the audio when encoding (2 frames), you can easily cut them away after encoding, just use eac3to and add a negative delay of 21ms to the encoded dtshd-file. However I came across something else when testing: With seamless branching discs eac3to 3.28 and 3.29 produce different results when encoding directly to flac. If I extract the dtshd-track and then encode it to flac both versions produce bitidentical results but when encoding directly to flac when demuxing 3.28 and 3.29 produce different results, how come? "The Hunger Games: Catching Fire" US release is what I have encountered this on. Last edited by Nebudchanezzer; 28th March 2015 at 17:38. |
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28th March 2015, 19:05 | #13155 | Link |
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@madshi:
This sample is refused by eac3to, but it can be decoded just fine with dcadec. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...postcount=3090 |
28th March 2015, 19:41 | #13156 | Link | |||
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28th March 2015, 20:57 | #13158 | Link | |
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I normally "extract" DTS HD 7.x tracks from the *.m2ts stream. Is that the same thing as "decoding"?
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28th March 2015, 20:59 | #13159 | Link | |
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dcadec author said:
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If the data is copied but stays in dts-hd format it is not decoding, only extracting. In that case this change does not affect you. |
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