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Old 6th December 2014, 05:29   #27761  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
Quick question. If I want to enable/disable madVR programmatically, I'm seeing this key in the registry:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\MPC-HC\MPC-HC\Settings\DSVidRen
System Default has a value of 0 while madVR has a value of 12. Is this always the case, or could activating madVR require a value different than 12 for some users?
if the position of madVR doesn't change in newer mpc-hc releases it should be 12 for all user.

but you should ask this question here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166689&page=83

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Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
MPC-HC and SVP are definitely using the Radeon.

Is there a way to know which graphic card madVR is using, and whether it is using OpenCL?

I just ran a test: running MPC-HC in Performance and Economy mode without SVP.

In High Performance mode, rendering time is 14.7ms. In Economy mode, the same video renders in 9.6ms. It seems to further silently drop settings when running on the Intel.
try GPU-Z.
don't let this program run in the background it can case dropped frames in madVR. only use it to check GPU usage.

a spike in GPU/CPU usage thanks to SVP can cause dropped frames too. you should make sure you have some breathing room when using something like SVP.
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Old 6th December 2014, 18:07   #27762  |  Link
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In SVP, disabling OpenCL *and then going into Video Profiles | Reset to default* increased the performance and lowered all rendering times. This allows me to raise all madVR settings. I'll try it on the 1080p TV later.

Btw, I'm trying to set a profile condition with aspect ratio and it's not working

if (targetWidth <= 1366) && (srcHeight <= 300) && (srcAR = 4:3) "Laptop 288p"
else if (targetWidth <= 1366) && (srcHeight <= 300) "Laptop 288p W"

I have VCD videos and somehow the last track always ends up being 16:9 (1.45 pixel ratio) instead of 4:3 (1.09 pixel ratio) for all other tracks. When I configure this condition in madVR, it always selects the first profile in both cases. How can I get this condition to work?

I could also ask whether there's a way to fix the aspect ratio in the VCD file itself but that would be a conversation for another forum.

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:31.
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Old 6th December 2014, 18:18   #27763  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you are pretty lucky that pc mode at 23p works. it's pretty normal that samsung only supports pc mode at 60 HZ.

madVR does better scaling too and chroma scaling has to be done when you use a PC as source.
the chroma scaler lost a lot of it benefits it's still not useless.

if you get "better black" than I guess your RGB level setup is wrong.

when your TV doesn't support 4:4:4 or you can't use it. it will be scaled from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 or lower and than again 4:4:4. this is not optimal at all.
Yeah I've gathered that I'm "lucky" in that regards.

The "better blacks" are not because of RGB level range, it's calibrated and fine, but the point is that the overall blackness of the screen is better when the "Motion Plus -> LED Clear Motion" is enabled, and that is not available in PC mode.

You say it will be scaled from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:4 which is "not optimal" - I would like more technical info on this if anyone has. Thanks.
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Old 6th December 2014, 18:58   #27764  |  Link
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Btw, I was wondering whether there was a way to re-encode videos with the rescaling quality produced by madVR combined with SVP. I just found a solution, in case anyone is interested!

This will be my solution to convert bogus 16:9 VCD files into 4:3 720p high-quality video.

1. In this case, configure MPC-HC to override pixel ratio to 4:3
2. Play the video with SVP + madVR with MPC-HC in window mode
3. Use Camtasia Studio to record the video output!
4. Slide the audio 1 tick to the right to resync audio/video
5. Encode



With this setting, there are 3 hungry software running at once. One is CPU-hungry, one is GPU-hungry and one is HD-hungry. They run smoothly together.

If I upload that on YouTube, some people might wonder how the heck I uploaded videos of HIGHER quality than the original files! And 30fps instead of 25fps.

I would just love to get NNEDI3 Frame Doubling to work before re-encoding videos in such a way.

Still, it would be great if there was a way of doing so with even higher settings that the computer can't render in real-time.

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:31.
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Old 6th December 2014, 19:15   #27765  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
Yeah I've gathered that I'm "lucky" in that regards.

The "better blacks" are not because of RGB level range, it's calibrated and fine, but the point is that the overall blackness of the screen is better when the "Motion Plus -> LED Clear Motion" is enabled, and that is not available in PC mode.

You say it will be scaled from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:4 which is "not optimal" - I would like more technical info on this if anyone has. Thanks.
you can look at this: http://www.5dfilmmaking.com/tut_444.htm

what did motion interpolation to do with black? in some cases it lowers the light output thanks to BFI or backlight strobing but you get the same "blackness" with lower brightness.

@MysteryX

have a look at the Avisynth or VapourSynth forum. the nnedi3 functionm in madVR is from a avisynth plugin. and SVP it self is running with avisynth too.
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Old 6th December 2014, 19:25   #27766  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
have a look at the Avisynth or VapourSynth forum. the nnedi3 functionm in madVR is from a avisynth plugin. and SVP it self is running with avisynth too.
Since I haven't found anyone who could simply explain the steps, I'm guessing this is a very complicated process that would be very time-consuming and require advanced study of AviSynth... and also considering none of the encoding software I've seen are offering these options.

This would be the job of someone who wants to write an encoding software that supports those features.

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:31.
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Old 6th December 2014, 19:39   #27767  |  Link
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this thread is the wrong place for this.
to do advanced encoding/filtering basic things like the usage of avisynth are a must have skill.
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Old 6th December 2014, 20:00   #27768  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you can look at this: http://www.5dfilmmaking.com/tut_444.htm

what did motion interpolation to do with black? in some cases it lowers the light output thanks to BFI or backlight strobing but you get the same "blackness" with lower brightness.
Thanks. I get the basics of 4:4:4 etc, but what I don't get it why there is a conversion going on from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:4.
Is there not a way for me to stop it at 4:2:2 ?

As far as the LED Clear Motion goes, it is a BFI and I do not get similar results by simply lowering brightness. Unfortunately.

So my ultimate question would probably be, if I stay in PC mode, then what can I do in order to get better motion?
I have never figured out madvr Smooth Motion. I believe I would need a higher refresh rate than 23,976 for that...
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Last edited by Xaurus; 6th December 2014 at 20:07.
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Old 6th December 2014, 20:53   #27769  |  Link
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Thanks. I get the basics of 4:4:4 etc, but what I don't get it why there is a conversion going on from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:4.
Is there not a way for me to stop it at 4:2:2 ?
because nearly all TV convert any input back to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.
there is no good reason to do this see sony TVs but that's reality.
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Old 6th December 2014, 22:15   #27770  |  Link
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because nearly all TV convert any input back to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.
there is no good reason to do this see sony TVs but that's reality.
Ok fair enough. Anyway, I've decided to stick with the PC mode for now. So I run 4k @ 60 Hz now and I tried to enable madvr smooth motion for 23.976fps content, but this didn't help. Motion / panning really looks mediocre without any enhancement. Anyone have any idea of what I can do?
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Old 6th December 2014, 23:46   #27771  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
Thanks. I get the basics of 4:4:4 etc, but what I don't get it why there is a conversion going on from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:4.
Is there not a way for me to stop it at 4:2:2 ?
You cannot stop at 4:2:2 because you cannot watch video in YUV, it is not a format one can display physically. The video needs to be converted to RGB (by physical reality equivalent to 4:4:4) for display because the display is made up of little Red, Green, and Blue sub-pixels. U and V sub-pixels don't make any sense and thinking about them makes me think of an M.C. Escher drawing.

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Originally Posted by Xaurus View Post
Ok fair enough. Anyway, I've decided to stick with the PC mode for now. So I run 4k @ 60 Hz now and I tried to enable madvr smooth motion for 23.976fps content, but this didn't help. Motion / panning really looks mediocre without any enhancement. Anyone have any idea of what I can do?
You have to live with the conversion to 4:2:2 or the "non-enhanced motion". Also write nasty letters to your TV manufacture so they might stop doing the processing in 4:2:2 in future models.

Sadly this is simply where the TV industry is at currently. Having a real 24p mode with 4:4:4 is a step in the right direction and already better than most TVs.
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Old 7th December 2014, 01:26   #27772  |  Link
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Old 7th December 2014, 04:59   #27773  |  Link
MysteryX
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
try GPU-Z.
don't let this program run in the background it can case dropped frames in madVR. only use it to check GPU usage.

a spike in GPU/CPU usage thanks to SVP can cause dropped frames too. you should make sure you have some breathing room when using something like SVP.
Here are the GPU-Z results when playing a 1080p .TP on 768p display.

I included madvR rendering stats, Radeon usage stats, Radeon tech info, and also Intel GPU usage stats just in case.

In this case I'm using SVP with OpenCL disabled since it works better that way. CPU runs at about 50%.

You can see there are tons of dropped frames while the CPU is used at 50% and the GPU is used at 57%.

madVR is using the Radeon and NNEDI3 still doesn't work.




Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:31.
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Old 7th December 2014, 08:54   #27774  |  Link
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We can't see anything since you don't use an image hosting site.
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Old 8th December 2014, 09:06   #27775  |  Link
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movies are making with yuv 4:2:0...

with madvr it converts to rgb 4:4:4 with the chroma upscaling...(with pc yuc converts to rgb anyway, here we again another 4:4:4 rgb vs 4:2:2 rgb, which named 0-255 or 16-235)

then if your tv isnot in pc mode, it then again convert to your tv's chroma by tv, for eq my pioneer converts 4:4:4 to 4:2:0 again with hdmi video mod...

i think that, madvr does a upscaling to 4:2:0 to 4:4:4, which is not the same quality as originial 4:4:4 chroma( for pc games 4:4:4 chroma is more important that games use native 4:4:4 chroma) )

its just a conversion to from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4...so if your tv is good at conversion processes like my pio, you will be good with video hdmi mode i guess.
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Old 8th December 2014, 14:49   #27776  |  Link
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NEEDI3 chroma upscaling + 970

doesn't work properly

Asus Strix 970
344.75


and there are so many bugs trying to watch MKV movies. black flashes, video is continuing rendering subtitles when paused and sometimes the video freeze and audio continues, sometimes it just doesn't continue at all and freeze on the last paused image, and sometimes it just freeze randomly when fast forward or back forward. and sometimes just low performance the renderer is doing 1-7 intead 6-7, and it just dropping frames non stop.

Using Potplayer + MADVR + LavFilters CUVID

So many video bugs I can't watch a movie properly. to fix the video I need to reopen it stop it or switch to JINC and it fix the slow down instant.

With 7970 same settings I didn't have a single issue
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Old 8th December 2014, 14:55   #27777  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hozes View Post
movies are making with yuv 4:2:0...

with madvr it converts to rgb 4:4:4 with the chroma upscaling...(with pc yuc converts to rgb anyway, here we again another 4:4:4 rgb vs 4:2:2 rgb, which named 0-255 or 16-235)
there is no 4:2:2 RGB and that's not 16-235

RGB is always 4:4:4 if limited or not.
the YCbCr can be 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and with HDMI 2.0 even 4:2:0.
YCbCR is always excepted to be limited range 16-235 at least in the HDMI spec.

i see this 4:2:2 RGB Myst not the frist time i wonder where this wrong information is spread.

the 4:4:4 is about chroma size compared to luma size nothing else.
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Old 8th December 2014, 15:43   #27778  |  Link
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Is NEEDI3 supposed to be working with whatever hardware decoder you choose in lav filters?
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Old 8th December 2014, 15:54   #27779  |  Link
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Is NEEDI3 supposed to be working with whatever hardware decoder you choose in lav filters?
yes. just tried it with DXVA native and the rest of the decoder look like normal software decoder to madVR no reason not to work.
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Old 8th December 2014, 17:00   #27780  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
Here are the GPU-Z results when playing a 1080p .TP on 768p display.
I included madvR rendering stats, Radeon usage stats, Radeon tech info, and also Intel GPU usage stats just in case.
In this case I'm using SVP with OpenCL disabled since it works better that way. CPU runs at about 50%.
You can see there are tons of dropped frames while the CPU is used at 50% and the GPU is used at 57%.
(images cut out to shorten post)
On the screens I can see you're playing interlaced content. Are you sure it's not SVP somehow interfering with deinterlacing?
Have you tried playing progressive content to see if the issue persists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
NEEDI3 chroma upscaling + 970
doesn't work properly
(text cut out to shorten post)
Some of these issues seem to have nothing to do with madVR, do you have no problems with EVR and other renderers?

Have you tried different player (e.g. MPC-HC)?
Have you tried switching to software decoding in LAVFilters' settings?
Have you tried resetting madVR to defaults, just to make be sure it's not config-related?
Does this happen with different drivers? I'm on GF750Ti and have no problems on drivers version 344.65 nor 344.75 (just upgraded).
Whether you play MKV/MP4/AVI/whatever doesn't matter to madVR, what might matter is the video format: H264, MPEG2, etc., so tell us about that.
Debug OSD stats (CTRL+J) might help debug the issue.

I understand you've upgraded your GPU just recently? Have you stress tested it with Furmark or similar to make sure it's not a hardware issue? Simplifying things, madVR with NNEDI3 can stress (certain parts of) your GPU more than games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien147 View Post
Is NEEDI3 supposed to be working with whatever hardware decoder you choose in lav filters?
Yes, but it doesn't work with DXVA scaling.

Last edited by michkrol; 8th December 2014 at 18:29. Reason: Upgraded my Nvidia drivers
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