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Old 12th June 2014, 09:51   #26641  |  Link
vivan
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It can't be disabled on win8, so this option should have no influence.
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Old 12th June 2014, 11:24   #26642  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Would Luma 64 nuerons without ED2 be better than Luma 32 + ED2 in madvr?
Try and see, it would depend on if you can see/notice the ordered dither pattern.

The more neurons the better.
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Old 12th June 2014, 12:55   #26643  |  Link
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@ madvr
Small idea.
It could be helpful for evaluation of LUTs if one could set 2 LUTs and a shortcut for switching between them for A/B comparison.
Maybe even use both LUTs on one half of the image each.

Thank you for your work.
As as side note, I find it incredible how much information can be conveyed with 1bit dithering (or 8 colors)
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Old 12th June 2014, 15:09   #26644  |  Link
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Since a few weeks AMD has realased their new 14.6 beta driver. This driver adds a setting to set display color depth for displays that support it. See screenie below.



I've installed the driver, and can set my TV to 10 bpc. When i then set MPC to D3D output, 10 bit out etc. etc. I actually can get 10 bit out (a2R10G10B10 output, CTRL-J stats screen, had to use EVR custom to confirm). So i can confirm this setting seems to work.

When madVR comes to the point that 10-bit or higher output is implemented, you can really get a player that supports deep-color for AMD users with the 14.6 driver and supported displays.
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Old 13th June 2014, 14:50   #26645  |  Link
tjcinnamon
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I have tried really hard to get the drivers to really disable SLI for madVR, they cannot do it. I think there is something about SLI that is on no matter what the rendering mode is set to.
I reported the bug to Nvidia. Next time, I'm gonna ditch my 670's and just get one 880 Ti (if and when they come out). That will have better madVR performance.

I wonder if the dual GPU/single card cards have the same SLI issue with madvr
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Old 13th June 2014, 19:18   #26646  |  Link
Asmodian
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I wonder if the dual GPU/single card cards have the same SLI issue with madvr
Yep, do not get dual GPU cards (AMD or Nvidia).
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Old 14th June 2014, 03:52   #26647  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
Try using the disable desktop composition option. The 512MB on the 5450 might be the issue there.
I wish that would help me but I think on Windows 8 it has no affect. I'm not certain what's changed but I had to pull the buffer back down to min again (4) after playing a recent dvd. I expect you're right about the ram. I'm not sure what the downsides are running less of a gpu buffer but rendering times seem so high..30ms avg.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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Old 14th June 2014, 05:07   #26648  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
I wish that would help me but I think on Windows 8 it has no affect. I'm not certain what's changed but I had to pull the buffer back down to min again (4) after playing a recent dvd. I expect you're right about the ram. I'm not sure what the downsides are running less of a gpu buffer but rendering times seem so high..30ms avg.
The only downside to running low GPU buffers is that you are more likely to drop frames if Windows decides to lock madVR for too long. With so little video memory dropping the buffers very low (1-4) is probably a good idea, certainly not a bad thing if you don't drop frames.

Is it possible your rendering times go up as you increase buffer sizes because AMD's drivers are doing some kind of swap with system memory?
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Old 14th June 2014, 06:16   #26649  |  Link
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you can cripple aero and see how much that helps: should be under system properties -> performence.

if you hit the VRAM cap you should get audio error and a slow down.
at least that was the case with my 6770.

so i don't think gpu use the system ram as pagefile or at least MadVr doesn't or it's so slow it doesn't matter.
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Old 14th June 2014, 16:10   #26650  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
I've mentioned this before, but now have a sample to back it up. Using anti-ringing filter on any of the downscaling algorithms after NNEDI3 causes jagged/aliased text. With the AR filter off text looks much, much better. This happens on any video I play, and can most easily be seen at the beginning of tv shows where it shows the actors names.

Take a look at the ticker at the bottom. Any letter with a diagonal like W, N, X, M, ect looks terrible with AR on.
http://www44.zippyshare.com/v/62692648/file.html
I can confirm this problem, I just wanted to report this myself. But it isn't only AR, using NNEDI3 together with a downscaler in linear light gives you dark halos around text. This is very noticeable on softsubs that are rendered at video resolution and upscaled/downscaled with NNEDI3/Lanczos3.
I also get weird artifacts when I double 480p content with NNEDI3 and then upscale it to 1080p with AR enabled.

I made two comparisons of the sample video that StinDaWg provided.

The first image is doubled with NNEDI3 (64 neurons) and downscaled with Lanczos3 without AR. The second is with AR. Notice the aliasing on the text at the bottom:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/79026

Comparison with linear light disabled/enabled:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/79027
The dark halos are most visible on the "A" in "INDIANS".

I still prefer NNEDI3 over everything else, for now I just disabled AR and linear light.

Last edited by Frechdachs; 14th June 2014 at 16:56.
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Old 14th June 2014, 18:05   #26651  |  Link
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Is there any advantage of running a 1:1 blu-ray rip through madvr and MPC?

If I were to have a 35GB rip at 1080p, and was going to output at 1080p would post-processing enhance or degrade the picture quality?

Thanks,
JOe K.
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Old 14th June 2014, 21:07   #26652  |  Link
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I don't see pattern 254 in White Saturation test. What upper level should I set as custom level in madVR?
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Old 14th June 2014, 21:12   #26653  |  Link
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254. don't forget this only works for madvr
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Old 14th June 2014, 22:37   #26654  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Is there any advantage of running a 1:1 blu-ray rip through madvr and MPC?

If I were to have a 35GB rip at 1080p, and was going to output at 1080p would post-processing enhance or degrade the picture quality?
There are still several advantages to madVR even when displaying 1:1. Chroma scaling still needs to be done and dithering is still important. If the source has banding debanding might be nice. The queues and FSE mode should improve any judder. Smooth motion is great if your refresh rate is not set to an exact multiple of the frame rate.

The only thing I consider post-processing in madVR is debanding, everything else is simply trying to display the video as correctly as possible. There are no truly correct methods (all methods have tradeoffs), especially considering GPU performance, so there are lots of options.
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Old 14th June 2014, 23:40   #26655  |  Link
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Is there any advantage of running a 1:1 blu-ray rip through madvr and MPC?
Well, at least mVR aligns MPEG2/H264 chroma properly as shown with this MPEG2 sample and nev seems to be saying that EVR is always using the MPEG1 alignment. This might explain why I always found mVR sharper looking than EVR, OTOH mVR can't align MPEG1 properly AFAIK so you'll have to feed it RGB as LAV does provide the info but mVR doesn't care.

But this question is asked fairly often and this was madshi's latest take on that subject:
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There are still differences in the following areas:

(1) Chroma upsampling (always needed!).
(2) Color conversion (always needed).
(3) Dithering (always needed).
(4) Smooth Motion FRC (you may or may not need this).
(5) Auto refresh rate switching (you may or may not need this).

Some of these differences can be minor, some can be major. It's possible you won't see/notice any difference. Or it could be a dramatic difference. So just compare yourself.
Of course for all this to matter a properly calibrated display helps and you might soon find out that the rabbit hole goes deeper

Last edited by leeperry; 14th June 2014 at 23:47.
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Old 15th June 2014, 02:31   #26656  |  Link
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Well, at least mVR aligns MPEG2/H264 chroma properly as shown with this MPEG2 sample and nev seems to be saying that EVR is always using the MPEG1 alignment.
How did you interpret that in there?
All I said is that EVR is unlikely to switch between the two, which in practice means its probably always going to use the MPEG2 layout, since the vast majority of content uses that.
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Old 15th June 2014, 04:50   #26657  |  Link
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Do you guys think MadVR running a blu-ray would perform better than a Darbee chip in an Oppo 103D blur ray player?

If so, I could forgo purchasing a $500 blu-ray player and use MadVR for the enhancements.
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Old 15th June 2014, 05:42   #26658  |  Link
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Do you guys think MadVR running a blu-ray would perform better than a Darbee chip in an Oppo 103D blur ray player?

If so, I could forgo purchasing a $500 blu-ray player and use MadVR for the enhancements.
if you look for something that does "things" with the picture you can ruin it with Darbee your choice.

MadVR only does things that need to be done with very very high quality Darbee changes the picture in a way that was not intended by the creator of the disk.

of cause MadVr can be used for debanding so changing the picture can help but this is an optional thing. and on a HTPC you can do a lot to "enhance/damage" your picture too.
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Old 15th June 2014, 09:24   #26659  |  Link
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How did you interpret that in there?
All I said is that EVR is unlikely to switch between the two, which in practice means its probably always going to use the MPEG2 layout, since the vast majority of content uses that.
Well, chroma is properly aligned with mVR on that MPEG2 sample and it's not the case with EVR...maybe EVR does it MPEG1-style for SD though, anyway it's about time I would encode a proper MPEG1 test pattern and see how that goes as this problem has been bugging me for long enough now
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Old 15th June 2014, 09:45   #26660  |  Link
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Is it should to use dithering even if video and native monitor resolutions are identical without scaling or dithering refers to color conversions in a "video color profile-OS/GPU-monitor" chain only and should to be used always, thus?

Last edited by mysterix; 15th June 2014 at 10:41.
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