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Old 2nd June 2014, 10:38   #1  |  Link
mzso
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EVR/VMR horrendous downscaling. Is it normal?

Hello!

Unfortunately I didn't find a DVB program that works with madvr. So I'm forced to use one of these.
All of them produce a really ugly image when I downscale it, horribly aliased. I often have the DVB program window on top in a small size and do something else until something of interest is shown.
It just looks really bad:

Last edited by mzso; 2nd June 2014 at 11:20.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 12:23   #2  |  Link
turbojet
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Can you adjust the resizer in the pvr program?

NextPVR supports madvr and dvb also I think JRiver does but it's $.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 12:45   #3  |  Link
mzso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Can you adjust the resizer in the pvr program?

NextPVR supports madvr and dvb also I think JRiver does but it's $.
I tried NextPVR. It's bugged with madVR. It also can't use LAV which has the best deinterlacer available to me.

I use progDVB. Which has EVR-CP but no settings available. So I don't know what's the point.

Maybe I'll have a look at JRiver.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 13:14   #4  |  Link
JanWillem32
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The artifacts seen are aliasing problems caused by resizers that do not compensate for the Nyquist frequency. The regular resizer functions of the EVR and VMR don't have lowpass before resizing functionality nor resizers with a reducing sampling kernel. The custom renderer types based on the EVR and VMR don't have such functionality either, except for those I implemented in the experimental builds.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 14:26   #5  |  Link
mzso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanWillem32 View Post
The artifacts seen are aliasing problems caused by resizers that do not compensate for the Nyquist frequency. The regular resizer functions of the EVR and VMR don't have lowpass before resizing functionality nor resizers with a reducing sampling kernel. The custom renderer types based on the EVR and VMR don't have such functionality either, except for those I implemented in the experimental builds.
Okay. So that means that I need to find a DVB program with madVR support, to have decent downscaling. "Great"...
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Old 2nd June 2014, 17:05   #6  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
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No, it's not normal. That looks like nearest neighbor. Check your GPU drivers and settings.
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That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 17:58   #7  |  Link
mzso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
No, it's not normal. That looks like nearest neighbor. Check your GPU drivers and settings.
I'm unavare of any relevant settings. What would I check driver wise?
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Old 2nd June 2014, 18:57   #8  |  Link
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I'm sorry to be the bringer of the bad news, but nearest neighbor-like output is to be expected when you're dealing with aliasing artifacts. The driver is actually at fault here, but you can't change that. It's nothing special; the drivers and the EVR just don't implement this kind of advanced functionality. The control panels that the video drivers offer allow you to set some video-related filters. In some cases some "enhancement" filters will be enabled by default, and those cause distortions that can be annoying. I see some possible sharpening artifacts in that picture, so maybe you can disable the sharpening filter(s).
As for the resizer selection for EVR CP, you can review the setting in the "View", "Options", "Output" menu.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 19:50   #9  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
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Lean and mean EVR leaves the resizing up to the driver, as said. If you see that crappy resizing, your GPU/driver is at fault. Unless you have something messed up with the driver, you should get at least basic bilinear. Without more info on your setup there's nothing more to suggest really.
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Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.

Last edited by STaRGaZeR; 2nd June 2014 at 19:52.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 20:42   #10  |  Link
mzso
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Originally Posted by JanWillem32 View Post
As for the resizer selection for EVR CP, you can review the setting in the "View", "Options", "Output" menu.
You seem to assume, I'm using mpc-hc. But I don't, I use progDVB. I mpc-hc doesn't seem to with my tuner card. (And I use madVR with it anyway.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Lean and mean EVR leaves the resizing up to the driver, as said. If you see that crappy resizing, your GPU/driver is at fault. Unless you have something messed up with the driver, you should get at least basic bilinear. Without more info on your setup there's nothing more to suggest really.
There's nothing interesting in my setup. I have a GTS450 with the latest driver.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 23:35   #11  |  Link
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Have you tried SmartDVB?

SmartDVB

QB
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Old 3rd June 2014, 00:06   #12  |  Link
turbojet
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I use nextpvr with madvr and lav filters and it works well, what problems are you having with it?

Also Potplayer might be able to use your card, it works for 3 different atsc ones for me and you can use whatever renderer and decoder you want but you can in nextpvr too.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 09:52   #13  |  Link
mzso
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Quote:
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I use nextpvr with madvr and lav filters and it works well, what problems are you having with it?

Also Potplayer might be able to use your card, it works for 3 different atsc ones for me and you can use whatever renderer and decoder you want but you can in nextpvr too.
Several problems. The video was misaligned sometimes, half outside screen or not scaled. The OSD was wrong too, I forgot how.
But as I understand it's bug for everyone. Are you sure you're actually using madVR?
With LAV I only got a blackscreen. With HW acceleration. Didn't try without, because it's pointless without it and HW deinterlacing.

Potp apparently doesn't support DVB-C.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 09:53   #14  |  Link
mzso
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Have you tried SmartDVB?

SmartDVB

QB
I will. But since it also only has EVR...
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Old 3rd June 2014, 12:55   #15  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mzso View Post
I will. But since it also only has EVR...
?? I go to that site specifically for PotPlayer... doesn't SmartDVB use PotPlayer, and as such use madVR?

Just spit balling here since I don't use DVB, but I do use PotPlayer and madVR.

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Old 3rd June 2014, 16:01   #16  |  Link
mzso
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?? I go to that site specifically for PotPlayer... doesn't SmartDVB use PotPlayer, and as such use madVR?

Just spit balling here since I don't use DVB, but I do use PotPlayer and madVR.

QB
I was actually thinking of another DVB program. I tried this one already. Couldn't get it to work at all with my tuner. Seems DVB-S only.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 17:15   #17  |  Link
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bummer... Well that is the extent of my DVB knowledge

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Old 3rd June 2014, 23:46   #18  |  Link
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It' not the original question, but FWIW I use DVB with MPC-HC and madVR. It works well.

If it does not work with you, there are active delopers, so you can open a ticket on their tracker.
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Old 4th June 2014, 10:58   #19  |  Link
mzso
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It' not the original question, but FWIW I use DVB with MPC-HC and madVR. It works well.

If it does not work with you, there are active delopers, so you can open a ticket on their tracker.
DVB-C? Didn't work out for me. It found only a few channels but they didn't work. It's settings are weird. It lacks settings for what others have and has ones that others don't. (bandwidth, offset vs symbol rate, modulation.)
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Old 4th June 2014, 23:46   #20  |  Link
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Arf no. In my case, it's DVB-T. I don't know for DVB-C.
For settings, indeed you're limited, but for my limited use, it's perfect. A little rectangle in corner of the screen with Madvr and LAV doing good job.
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