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Old 3rd June 2013, 11:55   #18961  |  Link
madshi
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Good news: I think I found a way to make refresh rate switching (23Hz vs 24Hz, 59Hz vs 60Hz) work correctly in win8.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 13:32   #18962  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good news: I think I found a way to make refresh rate switching (23Hz vs 24Hz, 59Hz vs 60Hz) work correctly in win8.
Sweet!

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Old 3rd June 2013, 14:40   #18963  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good news: I think I found a way to make refresh rate switching (23Hz vs 24Hz, 59Hz vs 60Hz) work correctly in win8.
Cool.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 17:02   #18964  |  Link
6233638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good news: I think I found a way to make refresh rate switching (23Hz vs 24Hz, 59Hz vs 60Hz) work correctly in win8.
Excellent news! Canít wait to try out the fixed version.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 17:36   #18965  |  Link
karamancho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Are you using the madVR display mode changer? Or some other display mode changer?
I'm not using any display mode changer and my display modes list in devices > display modes is empty. Should I add anything to it?
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Old 3rd June 2013, 17:41   #18966  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by karamancho View Post
I'm not using any display mode changer and my display modes list in devices > display modes is empty. Should I add anything to it?
You don't have to use it if you don't need it. I'm just wondering why your composition rate seemingly changes, depending on which video you're playing. You do mean the composition rate reported by the madVR OSD (Ctrl+J), right? This composition rate usually only changes if the display mode is changed. So how can it change in your case, if you don't use any refresh rate / display mode changer?
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Old 3rd June 2013, 18:02   #18967  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You do mean the composition rate reported by the madVR OSD (Ctrl+J), right?
yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So how can it change in your case, if you don't use any refresh rate / display mode changer?
f.lux might be the problem again. I just disabled it and started a movie that was 30.000Hz and its now back to 60.000Hz.

whats more interesting, after starting f.lux again the same movies composition rate now stays 60.000 (after restarting the player of course)
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Old 3rd June 2013, 19:31   #18968  |  Link
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for dxva scaling for intel chips-
with what generation did they move from shaders to a specific scaling asic?
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Old 3rd June 2013, 20:38   #18969  |  Link
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Here is a test with Haswell + MadVR + LAV Filters

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/i...pc-perspective
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Old 3rd June 2013, 21:00   #18970  |  Link
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More configurable CPU queue size

Hi madshi. Really appreciate your work on this unique piece of software. I'm using madVR for everything I watch.
Recently I've hit the CPU limit on some 1080p video. I've figured out the exact reason and I'd like to request one small change in madVR config. On like 5 highly detailed fragments (with duration ~15 seconds each) of the entire video, I have stuttering and AV desync (100% CPU usage, decoder queue slowly becomes empty -> hiccups), then everything gets back to normal (60-70% CPU usage, full decoder queue). The bottleneck side-effects appeared even if using EVR renderer, so its the decoder/cpu speed issue. However I've noticed that madVR can pre-buffer decoded frames in advance, which can help my PC to distribute CPU load between heavy and light parts of the video, but the 32 queue size is not enough to achieve this (at least for this video),
so my question/feature request is: Can you increase the configurable CPU queue size to smth like 128 , so I could use all my RAM for buffering ?

I tried to hack the madVR registry config values to set 64 queue size, so I could see how that would work out for me, but that didnt work - when I ran MPC-HC the queue size became 12 instead. In case you don't want to mess up the UI with overTICKed trackbar, then perhaps can you allow manual registry config value changes outside of the UI range to be properly processed by madVR ? Or maybe some numeric box under the trackbar for "above 32" values (could be made as a trackbar value multiplier) ?

My specs are:
Athlon II X2 215 ~2.7GHz; NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS (320 MB); 3 GB RAM
Win XP SP3; 1920x1080@72Hz
MPC-HC(v1.6.7.7091); LAV(v0.57)-Splitter/Video/Audio; madVR(v0.86.1); ReClock;

Video material:
1860x1048 @ 23.976 fps (1080p x264 Hi10p)

madVR rendering settings:
CPU queue: 32
GPU queue: 8

Setting CPU queue size to 4 doesn't help - it plays the fragment slower/longer with frequent but small frame drops and I think the video looks less stuttering because of that, but the AV desync is still there - even a bit worse than with 32 queue size.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 21:46   #18971  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danat View Post
Hi madshi. Really appreciate your work on this unique piece of software. I'm using madVR for everything I watch.
Recently I've hit the CPU limit on some 1080p video. I've figured out the exact reason and I'd like to request one small change in madVR config. On like 5 highly detailed fragments (with duration ~15 seconds each) of the entire video, I have stuttering and AV desync (100% CPU usage, decoder queue slowly becomes empty -> hiccups), then everything gets back to normal (60-70% CPU usage, full decoder queue). The bottleneck side-effects appeared even if using EVR renderer, so its the decoder/cpu speed issue. However I've noticed that madVR can pre-buffer decoded frames in advance, which can help my PC to distribute CPU load between heavy and light parts of the video, but the 32 queue size is not enough to achieve this (at least for this video),
so my question/feature request is: Can you increase the configurable CPU queue size to smth like 128 , so I could use all my RAM for buffering ?

I tried to hack the madVR registry config values to set 64 queue size, so I could see how that would work out for me, but that didnt work - when I ran MPC-HC the queue size became 12 instead. In case you don't want to mess up the UI with overTICKed trackbar, then perhaps can you allow manual registry config value changes outside of the UI range to be properly processed by madVR ? Or maybe some numeric box under the trackbar for "above 32" values (could be made as a trackbar value multiplier) ?

My specs are:
Athlon II X2 215 ~2.7GHz; NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS (320 MB); 3 GB RAM
Win XP SP3; 1920x1080@72Hz
MPC-HC(v1.6.7.7091); LAV(v0.57)-Splitter/Video/Audio; madVR(v0.86.1); ReClock;

Video material:
1860x1048 @ 23.976 fps (1080p x264 Hi10p)

madVR rendering settings:
CPU queue: 32
GPU queue: 8

Setting CPU queue size to 4 doesn't help - it plays the fragment slower/longer with frequent but small frame drops and I think the video looks less stuttering because of that, but the AV desync is still there - even a bit worse than with 32 queue size.

if you have 100% cpu usage its going to drop frames no matter what settings you use, sounds like you need a faster cpu to play that video
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Old 3rd June 2013, 22:02   #18972  |  Link
Danat
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Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
if you have 100% cpu usage its going to drop frames no matter what settings you use, sounds like you need a faster cpu to play that video
I understand that, though while the decoder queue is being emptied the video goes smooth enough (I'm not demanding 0 frame drops lol, if that was the impression). It almost plays fine the first heavy ~7 secs fragment - only on 6-7-th seconds i see heavy stuttering and audio becomes choppy which is quite disturbing . Thats how I got an idea of increasing the queue size more.

I love my PC because its properly configured and works like a clock without glitches. This is the only video so far that I got unsolvable problems with (I've been watching many 1080p videos just fine) and I'd rather try out some options such as these before thinking about selling the case .

Last edited by Danat; 3rd June 2013 at 22:07.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 22:08   #18973  |  Link
kiccolsd
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Anyone can help me with ringing artifact issue? I have downgraded Intel HD4000 driver to 29XX in order to use Madvr but I'm experiencing some ringing. Tried a lot of 1080p mkv's played on a 1080p LCD therefore I can exclude resize related issues.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 22:35   #18974  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karamancho View Post
f.lux might be the problem again.
Argh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
for dxva scaling for intel chips-
with what generation did they move from shaders to a specific scaling asic?
I don't know if they ever used shaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaMG View Post
Here is a test with Haswell + MadVR + LAV Filters
Nice - good to see Haswell finally gets the refresh rates right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danat View Post
Can you increase the configurable CPU queue size to smth like 128 , so I could use all my RAM for buffering ?
Hmmmm... I'll think about it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiccolsd View Post
Anyone can help me with ringing artifact issue? I have downgraded Intel HD4000 driver to 29XX in order to use Madvr but I'm experiencing some ringing. Tried a lot of 1080p mkv's played on a 1080p LCD therefore I can exclude resize related issues.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do you think that your playback chain somehow adds ringing artifacts to the movie which aren't in the original movie source? Can you show me a screenshot of the exact artifact you mean?
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Old 3rd June 2013, 23:49   #18975  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Nice - good to see Haswell finally gets the refresh rates right!
Not that that 23.97605 Hz really helps much when the clock deviation is so high at 0.00472% with a dropped frame every 14.84 minutes like their screenshot. The refresh rate of 23.97605 is actually very far from optimal on Ananatech's ASRock Z87E-ITX Haswell testbed in this instance, and still means using something like Reclock is required. I wish review sites like Anandtech would do more in-depth testing on the clock deviation with various hardware setups to find the best matches at standard refresh rates.

IMHO, the optimal setup is one which madVR reports drop/repeat every 3-7+ days when not using Reclock (or similar) with default GPU refresh rate settings. Matching the refresh rate to clock deviance is pretty much the only way to achieve perfect sync without degrading quality in some way, but unfortunately many GPU drivers are too inflexible to lock in fine-tuned refresh rates. This is the main thing going for using madVR with a high refresh rate multiple instead of a matching refresh rate if you seek to fine-tune refresh rate around stubborn drivers. Assuming the driver allow refresh rate timing tweaks of some kind, it becomes exponentially easier to lock in a clock deviance matched refresh rate each time you increase the refresh rate multiple.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Hmmmm... I'll think about it...
If you do implement a high CPU queue like 128, you may want to consider adding an additional slider for the Subtitle queue and/or have it match the GPU queue size instead. Setting the Subtitle queue smaller than than CPU queue I would actually expect would improve reliability in cases of CPU bottlenecks, similar to how setting the CPU queue slightly higher than the GPU queue does.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 4th June 2013 at 00:02.
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Old 3rd June 2013, 23:58   #18976  |  Link
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Why is it that video cards have such a hard time outputting the exact clock that you set anyway?
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Old 4th June 2013, 00:02   #18977  |  Link
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Usually precision issues with the clock generators, or inflexibility issues. It may be designed for 23.9760 specifically, but that doesn't mean it can do 23.977 to compensate for audio deviation.
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Old 4th June 2013, 00:19   #18978  |  Link
e-t172
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Wait. If I understand this correctly, if you use the same HDMI port for audio *and* video, they should be governed by the same clock (since, AFAIK, in HDMI audio is transferred during the blanking interval between two frames). If that's the case, why is clock deviation still an issue? Shouldn't they be perfectly in sync since it's the *same* clock? Or are we only discussing the case where audio is transported separately (e.g. analog)?
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Old 4th June 2013, 00:20   #18979  |  Link
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I did some more viewing with Smooth Motion rendering on tonight - watching snippets of films I've watched over and over again (you know those AV demo worthy parts that are worth watching over and over again )

what has really shocked me is how with Smooth Motion on - I'm noticing details I've never noticed before - when I say details I don't mean as in it looks sharper, or there is more detail on screen so to speak, but just that there seems to be so much more content in any shot with motion

genuinely leagues better - ok there is the odd very minor additional artefact - but perfectly acceptable

I'm not normally one for "post-processing" - but whatever Smooth Motion is doing it works for my setup - so thanks !

I'm comparing 24p from MadVR as 24p input into TV (my Panasonic plays 24p at 23.976hz which is quite unusual) - you get noticeable flicker in Windows Desktop - but no obvious flicker whilst watching films

to 60p from MadVR as a 60p input into TV

in theory the Panasonic playing 24p content with near to no processing without Smooth Vision should be the ideal setup - but with Smooth Vision on its leagues better
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Old 4th June 2013, 01:23   #18980  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Or are we only discussing the case where audio is transported separately (e.g. analog)?
It applies to all cases where madVR does not report drop/repeats every "1#J days". My testing with HDMI audio both PCM & Bitstream on my NVIDIA card, tells me it's not excluded. DirectShow's reference clock on the PC is a difference beast related to timing and sync compared to standalone consumer electronic devices.

I have no idea what you consider as "video clock", but the "audio clock" is what DirectShow uses as a reference clock as interpreted by the "system clock". The clock deviance shown by madVR, multiplied by and added to the video frame rate is the "real" playback rate in DirectShow before anything ever gets passed over HDMI or other output. For example, in Anandtech's screenshot with 0.00472% clock deviance, the "real" video & audio playback rate is equivalent to ~23.97715 fps, which is higher than his display refresh rate of ~23.97605 Hz.

I've found madVR's "clock deviation" + "drop/repeat every" measurements to be highly accurate on my systems, but ultimately you should trust your eyes in combination with the number of actual frame drops/repeats/glitches madVR records in the OSD stats. At a certain point, if you are unable to perceive or detect any anomalies, its good enough.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 4th June 2013 at 01:44.
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