Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th April 2013, 04:27   #18181  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
I may have missed something, but is madshi working on something else like commercials again? He's been online and all but no replies.
I think he's busy with commercial work atm. I'm sure he'll re-start development and respond to posts when he has more time.
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 04:49   #18182  |  Link
Gelatinous
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
I may have missed something, but is madshi working on something else like commercials again? He's been online and all but no replies.
Thats usually how it works. madshi will drop lots of new builds in the space of a few months, then will be silent for the next few months. It all depends when he's got free time.
Gelatinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 06:53   #18183  |  Link
Niyawa
Registered User
 
Niyawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Neverland, Brazil
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I think he's busy with commercial work atm. I'm sure he'll re-start development and respond to posts when he has more time.
I see, he probably just stops by to keep himself updated with the issues and stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous View Post
Thats usually how it works. madshi will drop lots of new builds in the space of a few months, then will be silent for the next few months. It all depends when he's got free time.
Noticed that, second time that I've seen at least.

Well, I'm holding up my guide update because I want to update madVR together, so I was curious when I could expect him to appear or something along those lines.
__________________
madVR scaling algorithms chart - based on performance x quality | KCP - A (cute) quality-oriented codec pack
Niyawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 13:32   #18184  |  Link
Devrim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
I see, he probably just stops by to keep himself updated with the issues and stuff.


Noticed that, second time that I've seen at least.

Well, I'm holding up my guide update because I want to update madVR together, so I was curious when I could expect him to appear or something along those lines.
I was looking at your madVR scaling algorithms chart and I had a question about the smooth motion.

There are 3 options under smooth motion, what is the best one to pick?



-edit-

Nevermind, read the rest of you guide, I changed a few more options too

Last edited by Devrim; 5th April 2013 at 13:37.
Devrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 13:45   #18185  |  Link
DragonQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 930
madshi, do you know why colours aren't in the same place in EVR and MadVR? Is it to do with the fact that chroma subsampling isn't strictly defined in terms of position?

In the example below you can see the coloured text is shifted by a pixel to the left in MadVR compared to EVR. I have no idea which is correct, if there is a "correct".

MadVR
EVR
__________________
HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
TV Setup: LG OLED55B7V; Onkyo TX-NR515; Minix U9-H
DragonQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 14:14   #18186  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
do you know why colours aren't in the same place in EVR and MadVR? Is it to do with the fact that chroma subsampling isn't strictly defined in terms of position?
There is two commonly used chroma subsampling positions for 4:2:0, the MPEG1 and MPEG2 way, the latter being used by most modern formats.

MPEG1:


MPEG2:


As you can see from these images, using the wrong position for upsampling can shift the chroma by half a pixel, which results in chroma bleeding over edges.
If in doubt, its usually safe to assume that madVR does it correctly, doubtful that EVR would even be able to distinguish between the two.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 19:01   #18187  |  Link
dukey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 560
You could at least compare the same video frames.
dukey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 19:24   #18188  |  Link
DragonQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukey View Post
You could at least compare the same video frames.
The text doesn't move.

I chose that section initially because it was text (easy to see aliasing) and I had leeway when pressing Print Screen (MediaPortal doesn't do frame stepping).
__________________
HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
TV Setup: LG OLED55B7V; Onkyo TX-NR515; Minix U9-H
DragonQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 19:30   #18189  |  Link
kasper93
MPC-HC Developer
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Poland
Posts: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
The text doesn't move.
Doesn't matter. You need to compare always exactly the same frame.
kasper93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 19:58   #18190  |  Link
DragonQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
Doesn't matter. You need to compare always exactly the same frame.
You're not the boss of me.

But fine, for the purposes of this comparison I've updated the MadVR image (CTRL+F5 to see it). Oh look, the same thing is visible.
__________________
HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
TV Setup: LG OLED55B7V; Onkyo TX-NR515; Minix U9-H
DragonQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 20:36   #18191  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
Guys, chill out. Everyone is just trying to help each other.
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 21:50   #18192  |  Link
Niyawa
Registered User
 
Niyawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Neverland, Brazil
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devrim View Post
Nevermind, read the rest of you guide, I changed a few more options too
Well, the chart is still somewhat in a feedback stage. I've been reading some recommendations from other users and I came with this configuration:



The only thing that really changed was the removal of Linear Light from downscaling in High, since it's really demanding indeed. I'm also using "blending" to make it more easy to understand but I still need to make a version with all the details included in the image. Just don't have the right tools to do it right now in the way I would like to.
__________________
madVR scaling algorithms chart - based on performance x quality | KCP - A (cute) quality-oriented codec pack
Niyawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 23:46   #18193  |  Link
fairchild
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 319
I'm more of a fan of chroma with no AR. I keep going back to the Mid option (chroma: Bicubic75, upscaling: Lanczos3 AR) even though my system is fast enough to run the best settings (Jinc 3 AR). Also don't run FRC since I want as pure of a signal as possible. (hence no AR on chroma, which is perfect for Blu-ray, and AR on upscaling for non 1080p content).
__________________
MPC-HC/MPC-BE, Lav Filters, MadVR
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600, Video: AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 -> TCL S405 55", Audio: Audio-Technica M50S
fairchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 00:35   #18194  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,699
Niyawa don't listen to fairchild, I really like your table.

But I am sure it isn't optimal for everyone, there is a reason we have all the options we do.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 01:02   #18195  |  Link
Keiyakusha
契約者
 
Keiyakusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
Well, the chart is still somewhat in a feedback stage. I've been reading some recommendations from other users and I came with this configuration
Personally I use Jinc3taps AR for everything so I can't say about other options, but just wanted to comment on Smooth motion option.
I watch anime mostly (like 99% of everything that I watch offline and 95% of what I watch in general), where the difference between frames is often huge even if its not a scene change. And I find smooth motion to look very ugly. I can easily see where it occurs. However without it I can't tell the difference, can't tell that something wrong even if some frames get dropped due to video/display framerate mismatch or whatever.
Maybe I set up something wrong or something, but as I said for me everything looks fine even without this option, so I don't want to invest a time to check this. I just want you to check whatever this option really that useful before recommending it to someone, especially if its many people. Just because this option is there and some people in this thread use it, it doesn't means that it should be used by everyone.

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 6th April 2013 at 01:06.
Keiyakusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 01:23   #18196  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,833
I agree, smooth motion isn't something that should be directly tied to a quality level table, its quite separate from that (and doesn't eat all that much performance to matter), and more importantly, some people don't even see the 3:2 judder (like most people who have seen this most of their life on NTSC TVs), but maybe would see the extra blur and artifacts it adds.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 01:42   #18197  |  Link
truexfan81
Registered User
 
truexfan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
Well, the chart is still somewhat in a feedback stage. I've been reading some recommendations from other users and I came with this configuration:



The only thing that really changed was the removal of Linear Light from downscaling in High, since it's really demanding indeed. I'm also using "blending" to make it more easy to understand but I still need to make a version with all the details included in the image. Just don't have the right tools to do it right now in the way I would like to.
just curious, is there ever a good time to use soft cubic? i notice its not on your chart anywhere
truexfan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 02:03   #18198  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,699
I also agree, smooth motion is not for everyone. I must admit I have never tried smooth motion as I use a 120 Hz display or a 24/60 Hz TV with Reclock so I cannot comment on it.

I was only thinking about resize settings when I endorsed said table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
just curious, is there ever a good time to use soft cubic? i notice its not on your chart anywhere
Anytime you like it more.
Some have reported they like it, I would assume instead of non-AR Bicubic 75 or Lanczos 3.

Last edited by Asmodian; 6th April 2013 at 02:07.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 02:46   #18199  |  Link
truexfan81
Registered User
 
truexfan81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I also agree, smooth motion is not for everyone. I must admit I have never tried smooth motion as I use a 120 Hz display or a 24/60 Hz TV with Reclock so I cannot comment on it.

I was only thinking about resize settings when I endorsed said table.



Anytime you like it more.
Some have reported they like it, I would assume instead of non-AR Bicubic 75 or Lanczos 3.
i actually like softcubic better for chroma
truexfan81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th April 2013, 02:48   #18200  |  Link
dbcooper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 43
Niyawa, are the settings in your chart optimised specifically for Anime or for general viewing?
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.