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Old 26th February 2013, 00:13   #17761  |  Link
Hiritsuki
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Hi, can the madVR run as avs plugin to encode videos?
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Old 26th February 2013, 01:57   #17762  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Hiritsuki View Post
Hi, can the madVR run as avs plugin to encode videos?
No it cannot
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Old 26th February 2013, 03:37   #17763  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Well that's exactly what I see when things are moving, so I'm not sure how that is "FUD".

It probably has more to do with how your display handles image persistence than its motion resolution though - you will probably only see it on LCDs with scanning backlights.

My issue is that I still see judder, not that I am expecting it to interpolate. At the end of the day, I will be outputting 24Hz anyway, but I am not seeing the results as intended at 60Hz.

Motion blur when the camera pans is typically caused by the shutter speed used
Yep, and I've been trying to play 23.976fps movies in 89.91Hz on a CRT with the blending stuff of mVR:
-linear light enabled: blurry and ghosty
-linear light disabled: far less blurry but the ghost images don't seem to match either the original frame rate, the display refresh rate or the video camera shutter speed, so I can see how this visually & subjectively seemingly uncontrolled ghosting could indeed be an improvement for ppl forced to run 60Hz...but on my CRT it looks like a very poorly deinterlaced movie that would give me headaches after 10 mins of watching it

I'm quite sure that turning this ghost images galore into a proper FI would be like a squeeze of toothpaste for madshi, so bring the pain

Last edited by leeperry; 26th February 2013 at 03:44.
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:22   #17764  |  Link
andybkma
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Originally Posted by turbojet View Post

andybkma: In the meantime you can use autohotkey, nothing needs to be installed, open the installer with 7zip and extract compiler and au3spy. Make a text file and rename it to .ahk and then enter something like this:
Thanks turbojet for the tip. Yes it does work however running that script makes my left click totally unresponsive (left click mouse doesn't work anymore). Had to right click into taskmanager and right click end task then my mouse left click works again. Guess the script needs fixing in order to make the left click work as normal....
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:46   #17765  |  Link
suanm
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I watch smoothness in madvr 0.86.1 version is not better enough than it's in svp,ghosting in madvr is hardly watched,though
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:47   #17766  |  Link
Ryokurin
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Originally Posted by oddball View Post
I read conflicting info.

"You should disable it for playback of video, especially on multiple monitor setups, because Aero has a built in anti-tearing algorithm that gunks up smooth video playback. A lot of times when your flash video looks choppy, it's because of Aero."
Yeah, back in the Vista days and WDDM 1.0, and systems with low memory video cards and/or slow memory. If you are still having issues with choppy video nowadays it's likely because you are doing something your video card can't handle (and disabling Aero probably won't help) or its a driver problem.
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:20   #17767  |  Link
Hiritsuki
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No it cannot
oh....

even DSS?
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Old 26th February 2013, 08:45   #17768  |  Link
turbojet
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leeperry: wouldn't it be better to use 60, 72/96, and 75 hz on your crt and let madvr change it based on framerate? SmoothMotion looks great on my crt tv thats either 59 or 60hz. Better than the LCD monitor (also stuck at 60hz). Occasionally I do notice blended frames but it's nowhere near like blended dvd's or using a blend deinterlacer. The motion blur can be reduced by using a post resize sharpener (sharpen complex in my case). It's not perfect but it's more comfortable to my eyes then any frame interpolation scheme I've seen. Now if there was a way to interpolate without glossing up the video that might be more impressive.

andybkma: I forgot the return, edited the script above. Also added sourceforge link to the older compiler I use, which might make a difference.
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Old 26th February 2013, 09:06   #17769  |  Link
suanm
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thanks a big,madshi ,for smooth motion in madvr
i don't find any frame drops when i use potplayer ,but found more frame drops when i use mpc-hc.
the further expectation is that smooth motion in future madvr can convert 23.976 fps or 24 fps to 60 fps
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:48   #17770  |  Link
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Ever since the NVIDIA r304 drivers released 8 months ago, IMHO you can run madVR with flush completely disabled in for Windowed and Fullscreen Exclusive without ill effects, as long as you don't disable Desktop Composition.

FWIW, the following is how I've been running madVR for at least the past 6 months on my GT440 1GB DDR5 + i5-3570K and I never experience any dropped frames, presentation glitches, or stuttering during normal playback with a near-perfectly matched refresh rate multiple, even though I don't use Reclock currently. Please note that I've only personally verified these settings to work well with NVIDIA GPU quirks, specifically Fermi. With these settings my render and presentation queues are always full @ 15-16/16 as well as backbuffer queue full @ 3-4/4, even when using madVR FRC.

General Settings:
Delay Playback Start = Disabled
Windowed Overlay = Disabled
Automatic Fullscreen Exclusive = Enabled
Disable Desktop Composition = Disabled (unchecked)
Use Separate Device for Presentation = Enabled
Use Separate Device for DXVA Processing = Enabled
CPU queue size = 24
GPU queue size = 16

Windowed Mode:
Backbuffers = 4
Don't Flush (All)

Fullscreen Exclusive Mode:
Present Several Frames in Advance = Enabled
Number of Frame to Present in Advance = 16
Don't Flush (All)

Trade Quality for Performance:
Use lower bitdepth for yCMS 3DLUT calibration = 6 bit [NVIDIA specific for stability under heavy GPU load when using a 3DLUT]

For reference, the following are my DPC latency readings during madVR playback on Win7 x64 + i5-3570K + GT440 1GB system, which I'd consider "average/normal" for similar fully loaded systems with many properly functioning drivers installed. Since system latency has an undetermined effect on madVR, I won't guarantee my flushless settings will work well unless you have a perfectly stable system without considerably higher, frequent spiking, or unstable latency readings.

DPC Latency Monitor: 25ĩs-85ĩs (~55ĩs avg) DPC
LatencyMon: 15-30ĩs Kernel Latency, ~60ĩs max DPC for NVIDIA Driver


Currently I've been doing some testing with madVR FRC @85Hz (instead of the 96Hz & 120Hz I usually use) with my GDM-F520 CRT to see how it behaves with 720p/1080p/1080i 23.976fps & 59.94fps video, and it seems to work quite nicely at eliminating frame_rate:refresh_rate mismatch stuttering. Even though I sit 12 inches from my monitor normally, I've yet to spot any visual anomalies from FRC on film, tv, and anime content, or even vertically scrolling credits. But while it looks does look completely natural on my CRT, I'll need to do some testing later with my Panasonic GT50 plasma and NEC 20WMGX2 lcd @60hz.

I have to wonder if FRC is functioning correctly for some people who see obvious artifacts. How madshi described it with calculating blending dynamically each VSync, it would seem to dependent on highly accurate system timers, low latency, and not pushing your GPU so hard to the point where it bottlenecks (Render and/or Present/Backbuffer not staying completely full 100% of the time), in order to work optimally on the PC side. The only time an artifact should be visible under normal circumstances (FRC enabled VS disabled at the same refresh rate), is if a miscalculation occurred.

Seeking seems slightly better in 0.86.1, but there are still brief artifacts of the "frame you seek from" getting blended with the "frame you seek to". If your madVR settings are pushing your GPU near its limits, this can make FRC rather unusable, in line with what Blight said, and also what I mentioned in my earlier post.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 26th February 2013 at 10:54.
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Old 26th February 2013, 10:55   #17771  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
IMHO you can run madVR with flush completely disabled in for Windowed and Fullscreen Exclusive without ill effects, as long as you don't disable Desktop Composition.
Note that madVR enforces flushes in some situations and disregards your settings in those cases, IIRC this applies to deinterlacing, FRC and possibly shader usage.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:07   #17772  |  Link
iSunrise
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Ever since the NVIDIA r304 drivers released 8 months ago, IMHO you can run madVR with flush completely disabled in for Windowed and Fullscreen Exclusive without ill effects, as long as you don't disable Desktop Composition.
Yes, thatīs exactly my configuration since the flush settings got introduced and it still runs absolutely flawless. After NV fixed the presentation glitches problem, that is. Before that we had to adjust the settings to not get any glitches.

However, I cannot use these settings anymore if I enable FRC, as it will cause severe stuttering (Iīm pretty sure madshi only tests with default settings after he does changes to the code). So keep in mind what I wrote in this post a couple pages back.

This looks like a side-effect of the new FRC path and you can currently break FRC with the wrong flush settings, which leaves the question if the flush settings should just be completely disabled/ignored if a user enables FRC, so itīs not possible for a user to break it. And, even though madshi included an additional flush in 0.86.1, it doesnīt change the outcome: You still need a flush somewhere in the first 3 flush settings for FRC to work correctly. Thatīs why I am not sure if the flush that madshi enforced does what it should do or if madVR simply removes the additional flush when a user manually disabled all of them through the settings (which obviously would be a bug then).

EDIT: Your post made me a bit unsure, since you almost got the exact same settings I have so Iīve tested it again today. I am completely shocked that today I can successfully run "donīt flush" on everything again withour problems with FRC. I donīt get this at all. There have been no changes on my system since yesterday, none at all.

Last edited by iSunrise; 26th February 2013 at 11:46.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:08   #17773  |  Link
Hypernova
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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Any i3/i5 Ivy Bridge CPU setup will last a long time. 8 GB of RAM makes sense due to RAM being so cheap now.

FYI, the Intel HD4000 can't handle Jinc with AR for everything in MadVR, so the best you can do is Bicubic75 AR / Lanczos3 AR / Catmull-Rom AR LL. I think you need an GTX 660 or better for Jinc3 AR, not sure about the mobile versions though.
Are you sure about that? From my testing, HD4000 can handle Jinc3 quite well. It had no problem with 1080p resolution, but for 2560x1600, the highest overclock I can do on mine chip almost make it possible. Too bad it's just almost. I don't really know with AR turned on, but I remember trying it and it didn't make much of a difference. And that was before the Jinc3 preformence improvement madshi did a while ago.
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Last edited by Hypernova; 26th February 2013 at 11:16.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:22   #17774  |  Link
iSunrise
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Note that madVR enforces flushes in some situations and disregards your settings in those cases, IIRC this applies to deinterlacing, FRC and possibly shader usage.
Please ignore this post.

Last edited by iSunrise; 26th February 2013 at 11:47.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:26   #17775  |  Link
bugmen0t
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
[...]
Use Separate Device for Presentation = Enabled
[...]
This made a huge speedup in the past for me but for some time now disabling it is as fast as enabling it before (don't know when it changed and why, though).
Does this still make a difference for you?
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:32   #17776  |  Link
andybkma
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andybkma: I forgot the return, edited the script above. Also added sourceforge link to the older compiler I use, which might make a difference.
Cheers for the additional info but I used the revised script and then used the older compiler and I still lose total left click functionality as soon as Zoom Player becomes the active window. <Sigh>
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:40   #17777  |  Link
bugmen0t
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@iSunrise
I cannot brake FRC by using "don't flush" everywhere. Have you tried with madVR default settings for everything else to assure it's not caused by another setting, possibly combined with FRC?
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:49   #17778  |  Link
iSunrise
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@iSunrise
I cannot brake FRC by using "don't flush" everywhere. Have you tried with madVR default settings for everything else to assure it's not caused by another setting, possibly combined with FRC?
Thanks for your feedback. After cyberbeings and your post I re-tested again today and I am completely speechless: It works perfectly fine today. I didnīt change anything on my system since yesterday. I donīt have any explanation for that.

Last edited by iSunrise; 26th February 2013 at 11:52.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:56   #17779  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Note that madVR enforces flushes in some situations and disregards your settings in those cases, IIRC this applies to deinterlacing, FRC and possibly shader usage.
I've seen madshi state that before, but at least from what I've seen, performance is worse when you have it enabled in settings in addition to madVR supposedly forcing a flush in the same step for a specific purpose. No idea why this occurs, but it certainly does when I'm performance constrained on this PC. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
You still need a flush somewhere in the first 3 flush settings for FRC to work correctly. Thatīs why I am not sure if the flush that madshi enforced does what it should do or if madVR simply removes the additional flush when a user manually disabled all of them through the settings (which obviously would be a bug then).
Your experience isn't the case here. FRC works correctly with everything "Don't Flush". No difference between 0.86.0 & 0.86.1 on this PC.
[Edit: I see your post above that it's now working for you for unknown reasons today]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugmen0t View Post
This made a huge speedup in the past for me but for some time now disabling it is as fast as enabling it before (don't know when it changed and why, though).
Does this still make a difference for you?
In situations like DXVA deinterlacing to 60fps where I'm severely performance constrained on this GPU, it continues to help immensely. I get constant dropped/delayed frames in this situation unless I have it enabled.
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Old 26th February 2013, 11:58   #17780  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Are you sure about that? From my testing, HD4000 can handle Jinc3 quite well. It had no problem with 1080p resolution, but for 2560x1600, the highest overclock I can do on mine chip almost make it possible. Too bad it's just almost. I don't really know with AR turned on, but I remember trying it and it didn't make much of a difference. And that was before the Jinc3 preformence improvement madshi did a while ago.
Hm, looks promising.
What do you think a smaller vga: nvidia 640m or 645m ? (and a smaller CPU) So in this case the heating won't be such a problem ...

Thanks!
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