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Old 14th January 2013, 13:27   #16881  |  Link
agustin9
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Why are you still using a 11 years old OS?
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Old 14th January 2013, 13:39   #16882  |  Link
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
There is only an indirect relationship between madVR's reported Refresh Rate and madVR's Clock Deviation calculation, so thinking in those terms will only cause confusion. madVR's refresh Rate calculation is accurate relative to other measurements from your computer, and that's all that matters for our purposes.

On the other hand, Clock Deviation has a direct relationship to your a/v Playback Rate which causes it to never be exactly 23.9760 FPS. Depending on your Clock Deviation, your actual Playback Rate would likely fall into the range of 23.9760 +/- 0.0005 FPS. Microsoft designed DirectShow in such a way that makes this skew completely invisible and transparent to the end-user. This can be confusing, since it results in all DirectShow playback FPS statistics being technically incorrect at face value.

If you match the Refresh Rate madVR reports to a multiple of your actual playback rate (calculated from Clock Deviation), you should never experience dropped frames assuming no madVR processing slowdowns or GPU driver glitches, but locking in such a high precision Refresh Rate is not always possible. See my post here for how to calculate optimal Refresh Rate from madVR's Clock Deviation statistic.

Reclock works from the opposite direction, by adjusting your a/v Playback Rate to match your Refresh Rate.
That's an ineteresting note - I'll definetely do some testing By the way, since it's so problematic to get a fluid 23.976 playback rate without any additional tools - maybe something can be done in future versions of madVR about it? Or that's the player's responsibility? Anyway thanks for all the input
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Old 14th January 2013, 15:44   #16883  |  Link
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Still love my Xp
It works great for me, for most things..
I have a Win7 partition on my main computer also but use it only for modern games.
I dont like all the extra fanzy stuff that came along with win7,
I have tweaked it down to look like Xp though
Its a taste thing I guess hehe

But does anybody know what it could be that makes it so MadVr doesent work on my main computer?
It is certainly powerful enough..
And it works on the other Xp machines I have tried it on.
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Old 14th January 2013, 16:34   #16884  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
23Hz is not 23.9670, it's 24/1.001 (which could be rounded to 23.9760, but madVR is using more precision than that)

Run ReClock, and your clock deviation will never be an issue. No dropped/duplicated frames or audio sync issues.
If you are running ReClock, I would also suggest targetting 24.0Hz. It's what films are natively shot at, and seems to have a much smaller deviation than 24/1.001 from a PC-based source.

23Hz is for legacy compatibility with NTSC. If you are running an HTPC source, you probably don't need that.

Unfortunately if you're running Windows 8, you can't get 24.0 with Nvidia now (and possibly AMD/Intel? I have no idea) as it seems to switch to 23Hz regardless.
It's unclear whether this is an Nvidia driver issue, Windows 8 issue, or compatibility issue with madVR and Windows 8.
Excuse my ignorance as i have never used reclock but reclock and bitstreaming DTS-HD/TRUE-HD do not get along correct?
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Old 14th January 2013, 17:39   #16885  |  Link
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correct but what is more important perfect video playback or perfect audio?
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Old 14th January 2013, 17:40   #16886  |  Link
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Both. Decode to bit perfect PCM.
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Old 14th January 2013, 18:21   #16887  |  Link
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that not the point reclock resamples
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Old 14th January 2013, 18:22   #16888  |  Link
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well I decided to go for reclock, too much of pain adjusting those custom resolutions, I can't believe after so many years it's still an issue But with reclock it works flawless, using 24hz Thanks for the tips
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:11   #16889  |  Link
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Both. Decode to bit perfect PCM.
Right now i bitstream all my audio via lav via hdmi to my av receiver. Is there a guide anywhere that shows how to setup reclock with lav and madvr? I know i would not be able to bitstream anymore but if i can still use pcm it may be worth it for perfect video. I have played with custom resolutions and have gotten close but not perfect.
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:19   #16890  |  Link
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Depends on your player. ReClock is the audio renderer. Then LAV can be set to decode audio, and if you have the ArcSoft dts decoder dll in your LAV instance, it will decode DTS-HD MA bit perfect. This is the ideal solution.
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:22   #16891  |  Link
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Hello there.
I've checked some pulldown detection patterns: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1276064/1920x1080-24-25-30fps-test-patterns-detect-pulldown-issues

and i do have same issue as the person that posted these patterns(long quote here) "(Pulldown / Frame Interpolation: One thing I've noticed that is interesting with the test files, it shows you what pull down and frame interpolation is being applied by the PC and/or TV. Each of the test files is only encoded with only 1 red square per frame. So when playing say the NTSC test file (29.97) you see two red squares when played at 60hz...in this case (I guess) the video renderer or TV displays each frame twice but overlaps them with the following frame. Now the interesting thing is when I play the Blu-ray test file (23.976) at 24hz I see 3 red boxs on my setup. As this is not being done in the PC, it looks like it must be the TV doing a 3:3 frame interpolation (though the documentation on the PIO LX608 is pretty vague on it's settings and options here)."

i do have screen forced to 72hz,and using reclock,but it looks like something in the video chain is putting some frame interpolation and i see 3(or 2,its really hard to see) red boxes. ive tried to force vsync,and play with pulldown detection in catalyst control center but in vain. Im using madvr+newest lav filters+reclock,playing using mpc-hc,screen is dvi-d connected with custom-reduced blanking times to allow 72hz on single-link using powerstrip.

im using xp 32bit,hd4870 and dell 2209wa (the 3squares also appear when i run 30fps test on 60hz,so i dont think its a screen issue,no one else reported that too)

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Old 14th January 2013, 21:22   #16892  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that not the point reclock resamples
But resampling is a mathematically precise process and resampling in Reclock is done to a suitably high precision. Provided the adjustments Reclock is needing to make are low (<=0.1% if adjusting up to what is needed for NTSC slow down) it should have no noticeable impact for 99.9% of user, except for almost certainly noticeably smoother video. Of course there will always be audiophiles who do not want the audio touched at all and they will need to accept less smooth video. But for most of the population I think getting video smooth is the better trade off.
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:23   #16893  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Depends on your player. ReClock is the audio renderer. Then LAV can be set to decode audio, and if you have the ArcSoft dts decoder dll in your LAV instance, it will decode DTS-HD MA bit perfect. This is the ideal solution.
I use mpc-hc. Im assuming i would just uncheck all the options under bitstreaming in lav audio. I have the ArcSoft dts decoder. I just dont know what settings to choose in reclock for bit exact audio and perfect 24p playback.
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:35   #16894  |  Link
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In MPC-HC you set ReClock as the audio renderer. I haven't used ReClock in forever so I don't remember all the checkboxes to check.
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Old 14th January 2013, 21:39   #16895  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
In MPC-HC you set ReClock as the audio renderer. I haven't used ReClock in forever so I don't remember all the checkboxes to check.
Thanks, ill search around for reclock settings.
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Old 14th January 2013, 22:42   #16896  |  Link
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
Excuse my ignorance as i have never used reclock but reclock and bitstreaming DTS-HD/TRUE-HD do not get along correct?
LAV Audio can do lossless decoding of DTS-HD and TrueHD. (DTS requires the Arcsoft dtsdecoderdll.dll copied into LAV's directory)

ReClock has to resample audio to work, but it is high quality, and any theoretical loss of quality should be imperceptible.
ReClock also gives you the option to upsample the audio if your hardware supports it, in which case there should be no loss in quality at all.
If you have CPU cycles to spare, you can also try this resampler.dll, which offers slightly better resampling, at a big CPU cost compared to the current resampler.


If you choose to bitstream, that means you are locked to the audio clock, rather than the refresh rate, which means either dropping/duplicating frames in order to keep video in sync with the audio (obvious stuttering) or allowing the audio to go out of sync.
Either of those options are far more destructive to film quality than ReClock's resampling.


I have never seen anyone able to output an exact 24/1.001 from an HTPC, and even with very minimal clock deviation (e.g. madVR reports one dropped frame every 5+ hours) while it may theoretically be one frame dropped outside the duration of the film, it usually tends to happen at least once if not more during playback despite that estimate, in my experience.


These are my ReClock settings - some of which you probably don't want to change, unless you're having problems.



Page 1: WASAPI Exclusive output will bypass your drivers, and block all other system sounds. It will also throw up an error if your sampling rate, format, and the number of channels being played are not supported by your hardware. (LAV Audio has options for downmixing to a supported number of channels)

DirectSound output is easier, as it lets all other sounds play, and any output format will work - but that may result in the Windows Mixer resampling it.

No need to change the sound pre-buffer or latency options unless you're having problems. I just wanted to have it as low as possible. If it's too low, you will start getting pops & clicks or crackling in the audio.

If you are using DirectSound output, set sampling rate and format to the highest options. With WASAPI output, set sampling rate to 96kHz if your hardware supports it, and the highest format supported. Generally there's no need to go beyond 96kHz. It may result in theoretically better resampling, but most (if not all) DAC chips actually perform worse once you go over 96kHz.

Time stretching will pitch-shift audio when slowing it down or speeding it up, to keep it at the original pitch. I do not recommend turning this on, as it is generally considered to be a lossy process, and the majority (if not all) of PAL or 24/1.001 content is not pitch-corrected, so it will actually play at the correct pitch with this option disabled.

Page 2: Set the "assumed framerate when not found" to what is most common with the formats you watch, or just leave it at <unknown>.

Page 3: I prefer to not have ReClock automatically load in any application - I only want it to load where specified. In my case, I just have it set as the default audio renderer in MPC-HC's preferences.


When playing a video, there is an additional preference dialogue you can bring up either from the tray icon (if enabled) or the filter list in your player.



Under no circumstances should you enable the "slave reference clock to audio" option, as that effectively disables ReClock's resampling/sync corrections.

You should not use ReClock's V-Sync correction with madVR, or DSound resampling. (low quality) Most of these options are greyed out due to the other preferences I have set.

Note: Where ReClock says "Media Speed changed to 24.000fps" ignore it, it's not just outputting 24.000fps. It's a message that should have been changed a long time ago, but it seems no-one got round to it.

PAL SpeedDown is optional, and should only be enabled if you will be watching PAL film content, rather than PAL video content. (which is likely 25/50fps native) There is a corresponding option in madVR's preferences as well. If you are not watching PAL content (25/50fps) then it doesn't matter what this is set to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annovif View Post
Have you got the same comparison for JINC 3-4-8 with and without AR (or only if AR is already 'the best quality that we can have)
Just thought I would mention that I did not miss this post, and I will try and get a comparison done soon. Hopefully by the end of the week.
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Old 15th January 2013, 00:11   #16897  |  Link
njfoses
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
LAV Audio can do lossless decoding of DTS-HD and TrueHD. (DTS requires the Arcsoft dtsdecoderdll.dll copied into LAV's directory)

ReClock has to resample audio to work, but it is high quality, and any theoretical loss of quality should be imperceptible.
ReClock also gives you the option to upsample the audio if your hardware supports it, in which case there should be no loss in quality at all.
If you have CPU cycles to spare, you can also try this resampler.dll, which offers slightly better resampling, at a big CPU cost compared to the current resampler.


If you choose to bitstream, that means you are locked to the audio clock, rather than the refresh rate, which means either dropping/duplicating frames in order to keep video in sync with the audio (obvious stuttering) or allowing the audio to go out of sync.
Either of those options are far more destructive to film quality than ReClock's resampling.


I have never seen anyone able to output an exact 24/1.001 from an HTPC, and even with very minimal clock deviation (e.g. madVR reports one dropped frame every 5+ hours) while it may theoretically be one frame dropped outside the duration of the film, it usually tends to happen at least once if not more during playback despite that estimate, in my experience.


These are my ReClock settings - some of which you probably don't want to change, unless you're having problems.



Page 1: WASAPI Exclusive output will bypass your drivers, and block all other system sounds. It will also throw up an error if your sampling rate, format, and the number of channels being played are not supported by your hardware. (LAV Audio has options for downmixing to a supported number of channels)

DirectSound output is easier, as it lets all other sounds play, and any output format will work - but that may result in the Windows Mixer resampling it.

No need to change the sound pre-buffer or latency options unless you're having problems. I just wanted to have it as low as possible. If it's too low, you will start getting pops & clicks or crackling in the audio.

If you are using DirectSound output, set sampling rate and format to the highest options. With WASAPI output, set sampling rate to 96kHz if your hardware supports it, and the highest format supported. Generally there's no need to go beyond 96kHz. It may result in theoretically better resampling, but most (if not all) DAC chips actually perform worse once you go over 96kHz.

Time stretching will pitch-shift audio when slowing it down or speeding it up, to keep it at the original pitch. I do not recommend turning this on, as it is generally considered to be a lossy process, and the majority (if not all) of PAL or 24/1.001 content is not pitch-corrected, so it will actually play at the correct pitch with this option disabled.

Page 2: Set the "assumed framerate when not found" to what is most common with the formats you watch, or just leave it at <unknown>.

Page 3: I prefer to not have ReClock automatically load in any application - I only want it to load where specified. In my case, I just have it set as the default audio renderer in MPC-HC's preferences.


When playing a video, there is an additional preference dialogue you can bring up either from the tray icon (if enabled) or the filter list in your player.



Under no circumstances should you enable the "slave reference clock to audio" option, as that effectively disables ReClock's resampling/sync corrections.

You should not use ReClock's V-Sync correction with madVR, or DSound resampling. (low quality) Most of these options are greyed out due to the other preferences I have set.

Note: Where ReClock says "Media Speed changed to 24.000fps" ignore it, it's not just outputting 24.000fps. It's a message that should have been changed a long time ago, but it seems no-one got round to it.

PAL SpeedDown is optional, and should only be enabled if you will be watching PAL film content, rather than PAL video content. (which is likely 25/50fps native) There is a corresponding option in madVR's preferences as well. If you are not watching PAL content (25/50fps) then it doesn't matter what this is set to.

Just thought I would mention that I did not miss this post, and I will try and get a comparison done soon. Hopefully by the end of the week.


Thanks! This really helped me setup reclock.
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Old 15th January 2013, 00:49   #16898  |  Link
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Is there anyway to automatically launch a file in full screen exclusive mode with mpc-hc? Right now once the file starts playing i have to right click and select fullscreen.
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Old 15th January 2013, 00:58   #16899  |  Link
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
Is there anyway to automatically launch a file in full screen exclusive mode with mpc-hc? Right now once the file starts playing i have to right click and select fullscreen.
There is a command line option that lets you do that.
Something like "fullscreen"
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Old 15th January 2013, 01:41   #16900  |  Link
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Is there anyway to automatically launch a file in full screen exclusive mode with mpc-hc? Right now once the file starts playing i have to right click and select fullscreen.
I don't think it launches directly into fullscreen exclusive mode, but if you open MPC-HC's preferences, you can go to Playback > Fullscreen and enable the "Launch files in fullscreen" option.
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