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Old 8th December 2012, 14:22   #16081  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Hmmmm... How about changing the "source levels" control then to not only allow fullrange and limited range, but also "limited range (double expanded)" and triple expanded. Does quad expanded (52-192) really exist!?!?

BTW, those numbers confuse me slightly. The formula to expand is "newValue = oldValue * 219 / 255 + 16". So if we do the math, we should end up with this:

fullrange: 0 - 255
limited range: 16 - 235
double expanded: 29.74 - 217.82
triple expanded: 41.54 - 203.07
quad expanded: 51.68 - 190.40
After writing this message, I thought you would indeed be able to offer yet another magical solution to my everyday extrelemy annoying problems

Oh, well LaTo provided me with those figures so don't blame me

well, I've got some VHS transcodes that went through a hell lot of failtastic conversions and one of them needs 2 and the other 3...so indeed quad might be overkill.

still, I would really welcome the opportunity to tag filenames in order to enforce poor levels, aspect ratio and matrix once and for all.....but you said that you'd think about it, and I'm cool with that.

once more for providing such exemplary dedication for such a stunning looking VR!
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Old 8th December 2012, 14:33   #16082  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konakona View Post
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3100/debugosd.jpg

here is the OSD after 5 seconds of playback with deinterlacing on.
It seems that your GPU can't keep up. The "render" queue is the first queue (read from top to bottom) which is near empty, so the rendering speed is too slow. Which scaling settings are you using?

BTW, since this seems to be a movie, not a video, you could try forcing madVR into film mode (e.g. by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T twice). That would convert the movie into 576p25. DXVA Deinterlacing results in 576p50. So when using DXVA deinterlacing the GPU has to work twice as hard.

(Please note that film mode currently only supports 8bit sources.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by konakona View Post
ive been trying to force 72hz on this screen for fluid playback of hd 23,976fps materials,but it will take me some time to figure right values in powerstrip :3 (this panel is capable of such refresh rates,it doesnt drop frames)
Ideally, try 72.000Hz for 24.000Hz Blu-Rays, and 71.928Hz for 23.976Hz Blu-Rays, DVDs and broadcasts. And 50Hz for PAL, if your display supports that. Otherwise 75Hz.

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Originally Posted by konakona View Post
edit: i just upgraded from v0.85.1 to v0.85.2,deinterlacing still looks bright and shiny
Please make sure you have all funny GPU "video" algorithms turned off in your GPU driver control panel. The only thing you should leave on is "use application settings" (where available) and "automatic deinterlacing" and "pulldown detection". Everything else should be turned off. Does that help?

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
well, I've got some VHS transcodes that went through a hell lot of failtastic conversions and one of them needs 2 and the other 3...so indeed quad might be overkill.
Ok, I'm trying to figure out how often such double-expanded movies occur. I guess double-expanded (30-218) occurs once in a while? Quad-expanded (52-190) probably never? And triple-expended (42-203) very rarely? If so, I might prefer only adding double-expanded to the madVR "source levels" option. I don't want to add a triple-expanded option if it's like 1 in a million video files. Thoughts?
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Old 8th December 2012, 14:46   #16083  |  Link
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after installing 0.85.2 looks like my hi10p playback improved much,no frames dropped whatsoever,ill playing with deinterlacing in a moment

edit:forcing deinterlacing to film mode works perfectly,thanks for advice!

ill try to force 75hz to get smoother playback.

Last edited by konakona; 8th December 2012 at 14:59.
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Old 8th December 2012, 14:59   #16084  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, I'm trying to figure out how often such double-expanded movies occur. I guess double-expanded (30-218) occurs once in a while? Quad-expanded (52-190) probably never? And triple-expended (42-203) very rarely? If so, I might prefer only adding double-expanded to the madVR "source levels" option. I don't want to add a triple-expanded option if it's like 1 in a million video files. Thoughts?
How often? Much like HD movies encoded to SD with 709 coeffs, it would depend on the technical knowledge of the encoder. I have seen a bunch of 720p movies(not BD rips) that needed two conversions fairly often. I also have VHS rips that either need or three, and now that I think of it I also have some 720p movies that do need three.

Anyway, it would only be meant to fix really broken encodes so maybe you could just add a "troubleshooting" last resort hotkey that would go from 1X to 3X and leave the current general purpose "source levels" hotkey for 1X TV/PC only? Otherwise don't sweat it, I'll just use a PS script....once PotP will support them
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Old 8th December 2012, 15:04   #16085  |  Link
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When you say "needed two conversions", do you mean 30-218, or do you mean 42-203? I'm not sure.
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Old 8th December 2012, 15:49   #16086  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Please make sure you have all funny GPU "video" algorithms turned off in your GPU driver control panel.
BTW, for ATI 12.* drivers it seems useless. You can turn all the crap off but its still there. As result I no longer see the difference between Spline 3 and 4. And I can't use 11 drivers with my 7750. Maybe HDCP encription is only the solution against buggy drivers.
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Old 8th December 2012, 16:55   #16087  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've tried that sample on my win7 x64 PC with NVidia 9400 GPU. Using the latest LAV version for native DXVA2 decoding works fine here with that sample. I've seeked like 10 times, no issues at all. Are you sure you're using the latest LAV version? Which OS and which GPU are you using?
info:
LAVFilters-0.53.2
MPC-HC.1.6.5.6293.x86.Lite
Win7 x64 SP1
GPU: intel i5-430M.GPU-Z info
i know its a weak gpu.i just want to test that

madvr:
chroma: SoftCubic 70
upscale: DXVA2
downscale: DXVA2

PS: i can play 720p videos (like youtube mp4 files) without any problem.
i have problem with TS files.
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Old 8th December 2012, 17:17   #16088  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoP View Post
info:
LAVFilters-0.53.2
MPC-HC.1.6.5.6293.x86.Lite
Win7 x64 SP1
GPU: intel i5-430M.GPU-Z info
i know its a weak gpu.i just want to test that

madvr:
chroma: SoftCubic 70
upscale: DXVA2
downscale: DXVA2

PS: i can play 720p videos (like youtube mp4 files) without any problem.
i have problem with TS files.
Maybe you can try lavfilter 0.54.1 first. There are some issues on detecting old Intel HD graphics DXVA decoding capability with older versions.

Actually I don't think you can get lavfilter's DXVA decoding work with MPEG-2 contents on Arrandale and SandyBridge based Core i processor's GPU. (i.e. if not HD2500/HD4000)

In your case, you need to use "Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder" to handle MPEG-2 contents to get the maximum available DXVA HW acceleration on such GPU.
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Old 8th December 2012, 17:49   #16089  |  Link
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Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
Actually I don't think you can get lavfilter's DXVA decoding work with MPEG-2 contents on Arrandale and SandyBridge based Core i processor's GPU. (i.e. if not HD2500/HD4000)
MPEG-2 DXVA works just fine on my Sandy Bridge HD3000 with LAV.
Should even work on older CPUs, too.
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Old 8th December 2012, 17:53   #16090  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Are you sure you're using the latest LAV version?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoP View Post
LAVFilters-0.53.2
You're not using the latest LAV version. Please update and try again.
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Old 8th December 2012, 18:24   #16091  |  Link
pie1394
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
MPEG-2 DXVA works just fine on my Sandy Bridge HD3000 with LAV.
Should even work on older CPUs, too.
Really?

On my Toshiba Z830 (Core i5-2467M), DXVA checker does not show DXVA2_MPEG2_VLD capability with the latest HD graphics 9.x driver. Looks like a driver-broken issue?

Something wrong in my memory... It does show DXVA2_MPEG2_VLD...

Last edited by pie1394; 10th December 2012 at 03:02. Reason: correct wrong statement ...
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Old 8th December 2012, 18:31   #16092  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
When you say "needed two conversions", do you mean 30-218, or do you mean 42-203? I'm not sure.
well, I really mean:
Quote:
double expanded: 29.74 - 217.82
triple expanded: 41.54 - 203.07
There are quite a lot of WMV 720p files around that require 2X IME, and the most broken ones actually require 3X....I dunno how they manage to mess up so badly, some funky presets in the official WMV encoder or in Premiere might take the blame somehow or maybe some HD cameras record in 0-255(mandatory for xvyCC compliance) so ppl go overboard with levels conversions afterwards, but they often come up in rather poorly deinterlaced 50i@25p form too..

I believe we can forget about 4X, I kept it as a worst case scenario but never found an actual use for it.

Last edited by leeperry; 8th December 2012 at 18:53.
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Old 8th December 2012, 18:51   #16093  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pie1394 View Post
Maybe you can try lavfilter 0.54.1 first. There are some issues on detecting old Intel HD graphics DXVA decoding capability with older versions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You're not using the latest LAV version. Please update and try again.
yes,now it works perfectly
thanks guys
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Old 9th December 2012, 00:23   #16094  |  Link
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Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
Since that madVR is very mature already I think it might be usefull that a WIKI / manual will be created for madVR. I do not have the knowledge for this unfortunately.
Would love to see that. I have so many questions...I just don't ask them bc I am trying to catch up to speed on everything first.
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Old 9th December 2012, 02:45   #16095  |  Link
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Mathias:

In case you feel like trying something new that you have already, try upsampling with Mitchell-Netravali with sigmoidization set to about 6.5.

I've not taken the time to find the exact value for Mitchell-Netravali, but for the fairly similar EWA Robidoux there is a justification for sigmoidal contrast = 6.5 +- an irrelevant nudge. (As usual, this is for sRGB content, and I'm not totally sure things carry over well with other "non cube-based" colorspaces, but I'm putting this out there just in case.)

Worth the addition computation time? Not sure.

Again, this is a shot "in the dark".
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Old 9th December 2012, 07:49   #16096  |  Link
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I have a problem with 85.x versions, when opening mpc-be\hc on extended display the first frame is displayed and then pauses. Tried resetting madvr and mpc to defaults with same results. 84.7 and EVR plays like it should with same madvr, mpc settings. Tested on 2 computers, nvidia and intel gpus with a few different videos. OSD probably doesn't help but uploaded it to http://www.imagebam.com/image/d30537224825014

Is there a way to set color matrix by file name? I tried bt.601 and bt.709 with no luck. It would be really nice if the bitstream doesn't inform it would set by these in the file name:
bt.709: *hd*/*bd*/*blu-ray*/*bluray*
bt.601: *dvd*/*vhs*
What resolution does it guess 709 instead of 601? 852px width detects as 601 but I would think 721px and up would be 709.

One last thing for madshi, I know you've talked about implementing a sharpen filter like finesharp as a pixel shader but after watching finesharp with bicubic 75/100 and lanczos3 over the past 6 months or so and spline144 over the past month. Spline144 results in the nicer and more natural picture, but not quite as sharp. If Spline144 to 256 difference is anything like 100 to 144, 256 would sharper than finesharp with a substantially lower demand on gpu and maybe most important a lot less work to implement, spline coefficients are already calculated. Finesharp at times makes faces look 'waxy' like all other sharpeners I've tried.

Also haven't seen it reported or if it was known but 85.2 no longer has the green line problem with dxva resizing with HD3000.

Last edited by turbojet; 9th December 2012 at 09:17.
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Old 9th December 2012, 12:03   #16097  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicolasRobidoux View Post
Mathias:

In case you feel like trying something new that you have already, try upsampling with Mitchell-Netravali with sigmoidization set to about 6.5.

I've not taken the time to find the exact value for Mitchell-Netravali, but for the fairly similar EWA Robidoux there is a justification for sigmoidal contrast = 6.5 +- an irrelevant nudge. (As usual, this is for sRGB content, and I'm not totally sure things carry over well with other "non cube-based" colorspaces, but I'm putting this out there just in case.)

Worth the addition computation time? Not sure.

Again, this is a shot "in the dark".
Thanks for the suggestion! However, after all the experiments I did with sigmoidization (and I spent quite a lot of time on that), my opinion at the moment is that sigmoidization helps with some images and makes things worse with other images. I don't think this depends much on which exact resampling and window filters are used, so I have my doubts that results with Mitchell-Netravali would be any different to my earlier experiments with Jinc and Lanczos. Because of that I'm a bit weary of trying further "shots in the dark" with sigmoidization at the moment, because I simply have *so* many other things to do, most of which will bring immediate improvements.

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Originally Posted by Qaq View Post
BTW, for ATI 12.* drivers it seems useless. You can turn all the crap off but its still there. As result I no longer see the difference between Spline 3 and 4. And I can't use 11 drivers with my 7750. Maybe HDCP encription is only the solution against buggy drivers.
You mean you got problems with wrong colors with deinterlacing turned on? Or what do you mean? And what does HDCP have to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
I have a problem with 85.x versions, when opening mpc-be\hc on extended display the first frame is displayed and then pauses. Tried resetting madvr and mpc to defaults with same results. 84.7 and EVR plays like it should with same madvr, mpc settings. Tested on 2 computers, nvidia and intel gpus with a few different videos. OSD probably doesn't help but uploaded it to http://www.imagebam.com/image/d30537224825014
A debug log might help. What does "extended display" mean exactly? You mean some special mode of dual monitor setup? Does the problem only occur in that one mode? In all other modes playback works just fine?

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Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Is there a way to set color matrix by file name?
Not at the moment, but it's on my to do list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
What resolution does it guess 709 instead of 601? 852px width detects as 601 but I would think 721px and up would be 709.
Anamorphic PAL is 1024x576 after aspect ratio correction. So width must be higher than 1024, or height bigger than 576 to quality for "HD".

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
One last thing for madshi, I know you've talked about implementing a sharpen filter like finesharp as a pixel shader but after watching finesharp with bicubic 75/100 and lanczos3 over the past 6 months or so and spline144 over the past month. Spline144 results in the nicer and more natural picture, but not quite as sharp. If Spline144 to 256 difference is anything like 100 to 144, 256 would sharper than finesharp with a substantially lower demand on gpu and maybe most important a lot less work to implement, spline coefficients are already calculated. Finesharp at times makes faces look 'waxy' like all other sharpeners I've tried.
To my eyes in the very few test images I saw, spline144 looked oversharpened. But I have to preserve final judgement because I simply didn't have enough time to evaluate it properly. Anyway, now is not the time to talk about FineSharp or alternatives. Busy with other stuff atm...
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Old 9th December 2012, 13:40   #16098  |  Link
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To my eyes in the very few test images I saw, spline144 looked oversharpened.
Correct, it's pretty bad. We're all curious to see how it looks with anti-ringing applied though.
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Old 9th December 2012, 14:38   #16099  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Anamorphic PAL is 1024x576 after aspect ratio correction. So width must be higher than 1024, or height bigger than 576 to quality for "HD".
This says 1050 576 (ITU scaling).
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Old 9th December 2012, 15:00   #16100  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by mandarinka View Post
This says 1050 576 (ITU scaling).
Well, do the math yourself:

16/9 = ?
1024/576 = ?
1050/576 = ?
576 * 16 / 9 = ?

It's not a good idea to blindly trust some website if you can do the proper math yourself...
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