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Old 1st December 2012, 17:13   #13241  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanezhiling View Post
Adding an option for users is pretty nice, but what the default setting should be annoys me. Is LAV video decoder the first one to do that?
Not really. Haali's splitter would always use the container AR, too, for example. (It would even manipulate bitstream AR to match container AR in real-time)
Also, the option is already there. We are not talking about adding it.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:17   #13242  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
What I mean is setting container ar is the step that you can't skip.
Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least, not sure about MP4, but i bet its not mandatory there either.

Anyway, this is all about what default option is selected. If you think its wrong, make your case with reasonable arguments that can be followed and understood, get some real world data to back it up, and i'll see about changing it.
I won't change it because one of you guys "thinks" it should be different, give me a good reason to break playback of files that started working when i set the default to this.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 1st December 2012 at 17:23.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:29   #13243  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least
If the elements don't exist, the Matroska specs will mandate that DisplayWidth=PixelWidth and DisplayHeight=PixelHeight (if DisplayUnit==0, which is its default value). So not setting them for anamorphic streams is a very bad idea, even though these elements might not be strictly speaking "mandatory".

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 1st December 2012 at 17:32.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:32   #13244  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Sure you can, container AR isn't really a mandatory element, in MKV at least, not sure about MP4, but i bet its not mandatory there either.

Anyway, this is all about what default option is selected. If you think its wrong, make your case with reasonable arguments that can be followed and understood, get some real world data to back it up, and i'll see about changing it.
I won't change it because one of you guys "thinks" it should be different, give me a good reason to break playback of files that started working when i set the default to this.
Hmm maybe I confused it with resolution that is not "display". But I think any software sets something, if it is not specified it makes is equal to resolution. Anyway the point was that if now user produces file with correct container ar, there is no much reason for him to stop doing so. This is offtopic really lets move on.

I'm not really asking to change the defaults, either way it doesn't really affects me. I just believe always the root of the problem should be fixed. As for arguments, I believe I made one. There is no reason the file I posted shouldn't work. It doesn't breaks mkv, any valid splitter will be ok with it. If mkv forbids that, it should always force ar to be removed from the stream.

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 1st December 2012 at 17:35.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:34   #13245  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
It doesn't breaks mkv, any valid splitter will be ok with it.
Haali will most likely not work with that, it always enforces the container AR, even modifies the bitstream to do so. I wonder if its still considered a "valid" splitter.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:37   #13246  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
If mkv forbids that, it should always force ar to be removed from the stream.
Mkvmerge actually did just that for a long time, until people complained about files not working on their broken players.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:46   #13247  |  Link
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Yes I know, but I think anything that haali does "on the fly" or what mkvmerge did is not really defined in mkv specification, isn't it? On the other hand thing about ar in h264 stream (well not only ar) is defined in h264 specs.
Also it is arguable that what haali does is not a bug. And to be honest right now common opinion is that haali is broken. Not because of AR though. ^__^
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:49   #13248  |  Link
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The 0.54.1 crash is probably a false alarm, after reinstalling it one more time, it's ok.

A question on the splitter: I'm trying to play .mov DVC-PRO HD files (sample). With mpc-hc's internal MP4/MOV filter, I get both audio and video (LAV video reports: CDVH 960x720). I have the Raylight Decoder installed, which is probably why the video plays fine. When I enable the LAV Splitter (and source) there is no video. Is this unsupported?
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:53   #13249  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
Yes I know, but I think anything that haali does "on the fly" or what mkvmerge did is not really defined in mkv specification, isn't it?
Well, the mkv spec only defines how to read the format and it says that AR is to be derived from the DisplayWidth and DisplayHeight elements. Nothing more and nothing less. Of course it doesn't say anything about how this has to be implemented in e.g. DirectShow.
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Old 1st December 2012, 17:57   #13250  |  Link
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I don't have any data regarding whether stream ARs or container ARs are more often correct but surely container AR should be preferred, simply because it's so easy to change. Just remux with MKVMerge or TSMuxer, etc. Fixing stream ARs is a nightmare for most file types, meaning you usually need to re-encode, which is slow and results in a loss of quality. Also, I've seen incorrect stream AR in TV streams, so it's not like it's only amateur content creators that get this wrong.

In an ideal world, the container and stream AR would always match but this isn't always the case so container AR should be preferred by default. If you happen to have a lot of files with incorrect container ARs but correct stream ARs, and you don't want to spend time fixing them, then you can change the setting.
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Old 1st December 2012, 18:18   #13251  |  Link
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Ideally a good encoder should set both stream ar and container ar correctly. If one doesn't do so, container ar is supposed to override stream ar, or else why is container ar needed? If one sample has correct stream ar but incorrect container ar, I think it is that particular sample which should be blamed, not a splitter or decoder which behaves reasonably, and even offers an option to let you choose another behaviour, although not by default.

btw stream ar is still editable without re-encoding by some tools with bitstream filter, like mp4box and roozhou's FFmpeg.

Last edited by 06_taro; 1st December 2012 at 18:33.
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Old 1st December 2012, 19:46   #13252  |  Link
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In what case would it be beneficial to use Intel QuickSync or DXVA2 to decode? I'm confused about when QuickSync should be used and when regular CPU decoding is used. Same thing for DXVA2 vs CUVID vs CPU decoding.
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Old 1st December 2012, 20:25   #13253  |  Link
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Hardware decoders usually use less power, because they are running in fixed-function hardware and not in general-purpose hardware like the CPU.
Additionally, some slower/older CPUs may have issues with complex formats (especially VC-1 interlaced requires quite some CPU because the decoder isn't well optimized for multi-threading)
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Old 1st December 2012, 22:38   #13254  |  Link
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So if I have a GTX 670 and i7 3770K I should be using CUVID or QuickSync? DXVA2 is mainly for ATI users right?
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Old 1st December 2012, 22:53   #13255  |  Link
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DXVA2 Native uses the least power, and if you don't need software post-processing like ffdshow raw or VSFilter, you can use it and benefit the most from it. If you use such post-processing, i would recommend either CUVID or DXVA2-CB, as thats most likely your active GPU, and QuickSync only works if the Intel GPU is active.
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Old 1st December 2012, 23:17   #13256  |  Link
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@Nev
You can test for specific capabilities (fourcc, resolution, etc.) by calling the TestMediaType function on IQuickSync.

As for VC-1 DXVA2 support on Intel's iGPU by CyberLink and Arcsoft, they might also use the Intel Media SDK. I didn't check the players but at least one other product uses it.
I'll ask internally if there's a reason why this capability isn't enumerated properly.
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Old 1st December 2012, 23:21   #13257  |  Link
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what would people suggest for someone who has a 560ti and a i7 2600 (getting a newer card is not an option) would it be the same as above - CUVID or DXVA2-CB ?
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Old 2nd December 2012, 02:28   #13258  |  Link
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what would people suggest for someone who has a 560ti and a i7 2600 (getting a newer card is not an option) would it be the same as above - CUVID or DXVA2-CB ?
why bother with HW accel with such a rig?
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Old 2nd December 2012, 18:07   #13259  |  Link
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To summarize some of my findings with testing DVD playback:

Problem 1: Messed up video if stride was guessed. Can be solved by using the calculated stride value.
Problem 2: Black screen with Overlay Mixer and interlaced video. Can be solved by never setting the interlaced flag in output mediatype when connected to Overlay Mixer. I don't think that Overlay is capable of doing interlacing anyway.
Problem 3: No DVD menu in WMP11 on XP. I have verified that CLAVVideoSubtitleInputPin::CheckMediaType is never called. So it seems the graph builder somehow doesn't like a dynamically created pin. Perhaps you can implement a workaround where LAV Video takes the initiative to connect the pin to the DVD Navigator? This should only be needed for the combo XP + wmplayer.exe/ehshell.exe.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 21:57   #13260  |  Link
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@nevcairiel
LAV Video Decoder crash on loop of the dvd menu with madVR. Can be reproduced if we hover on other button before the loop. Or just when madVR debug info is opened (crtl+j). Work fine with ffdshow...

Dump: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/dmp.7z
DVD menu: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/LAV/DVD.7z
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