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Old 15th October 2012, 20:47   #14801  |  Link
Motenai Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Does this also happen with the latest madVR v0.84.3 build? Are you using the MPC-HC refresh rate switcher? Try using the madVR built in display mode switcher instead.
ok
without MPC-HC internal switcher no switch.
with only MPC-HC internal switcher seems work.
with MPC-HC internal switcher and madVR doesn't work.

if i leave empty the modes textbox, work (with MPC-HC switcher)
with even 1024x768p60 (default for my screen) blank screen.

I've tryed even older build of madVR and MPC-HC.

my specs are w7 64bit, i7 920, hd4650, catalyst 12.6
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Old 15th October 2012, 21:55   #14802  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motenai Yoda View Post
ok
without MPC-HC internal switcher no switch.
with only MPC-HC internal switcher seems work.
with MPC-HC internal switcher and madVR doesn't work.

if i leave empty the modes textbox, work (with MPC-HC switcher)
with even 1024x768p60 (default for my screen) blank screen.

I've tryed even older build of madVR and MPC-HC.

my specs are w7 64bit, i7 920, hd4650, catalyst 12.6
Maybe there's a misunderstanding. You should not use 2 different display mode switchers at the same time! That won't work. In the worst case MPC-HC will switch to mode A, madVR's switcher will detect the change and switch to mode B. MPC-HC will switch back to mode A, madVR back to mode B. They might change modes all the time without pause. Please always only use one display mode switcher. Either MPC-HC or madVR, but not both switchers at the same time.

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Originally Posted by NicolasRobidoux View Post
Mathias:
Having double checked, it would appear to me that having a final Gaussian blur step with a radius dependent on the enlargement ratio may be the ticket. Gremlins die before the blur is annoying. Gaussian blur with a reasonably small radius should be cheap (enough).
My guess is that the radius (or, equivalently, sigma) should obey a simple proportionality constant with the enlargement ratio. (Gaussian radius = half of enlargement ratio, I would guess, is about right. This means that the "effective area" over which the blur is noticeable is about the size of an original pixel, or a bit smaller.)
Thank you, that sounds like a good fix. Maybe I'll find a way to avoid the gremlins from appearing in the first place. If not, I'll try your blur idea.
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Old 15th October 2012, 22:33   #14803  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Thanks... I'm still waiting for more test pictures from 6233638 and cyberbeing, though. Optimizing the AR algorithm for just one image is easy. Optimizing it to work well for all sorts of difficult situations is the hard thing.
What sort of images are you looking for? Film captures?

The problem I have is that it's difficult to find video/film sources that don't already have a ton of ringing already encoded outside of Blu-ray. (which mostly doesn't need upscaling yet)
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Old 15th October 2012, 22:43   #14804  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I hate making the settings dialog more complicated than necessary. I'll think about it.
Thanks. My humble opinion: Checkboxes don't do any harm.
Of course I don't know if this is technically a little Sisyphean task-like for you to mess with the GUI, but from a user's viewpoint, a little checkbox, hidden relatively deep in the settings, won't make it more confusing.

Btw: I'd really appreciate if you could comment on this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=14538

Thanks.
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Old 15th October 2012, 23:06   #14805  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Mathias:
It indeed was an ImageMagick 7 bug. (IM7 is the alpha of the next major, API breaking, release, so I asked for it.)

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 16th October 2012 at 13:43.
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Old 16th October 2012, 07:45   #14806  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
What sort of images are you looking for? Film captures?
Well, you reported that the Jinc AR produces more (or uglier) ringing compared to e.g. Lanczos/Spline AR. I need more images which demonstrate that. Basically any images which make Jinc AR stumble somehow. And the more different the test images are the better. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
from a user's viewpoint, a little checkbox, hidden relatively deep in the settings, won't make it more confusing.
I have a very different opinion on this. A new madVR user will be tempted to look at all the settings and understand them. Adding billions of funny checkboxes which are hard to understand will bury the really important settings in a sea of noise. If I had added every funny option any madVR user ever asked for, the settings dialog would have 2 or 3 times as many options as it has now, many of which nobody would ever use or even understand. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that your wish is useless. I said I would think about it. I'm just saying that I generally do have to resist the tendency to overload the madVR settings dialog with funny options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Btw: I'd really appreciate if you could comment on this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=14538
DVD playback is not officially supported by madVR yet. I can't fix things that I don't support and which require hacking the OS for me to even be able to reproduce the problem.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:47   #14807  |  Link
huhn
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i can confirm the dpc problems with my amd 6770 for me they are at 1300 and i didn't notice a problem at all at least nothing i'm aware off.
using a queue like 4/4 solved the "issue" but more interesting is the fact that my hd4000 in the same pc doesn't have any problems with queues like 24/24l the 6770 is still running but all displays are disconnected.
even with 4/4 the error comes back after some time
with evr cp there r no problem at all with dpc spikes.

bug report:

start a video in windows mode for example a 720 on a 1080p screen
press pause then stop and now press control+enter

the video will be at the top left in original size the rest is black
i can't test it in windows 7 overlay mode because my amd card can't handle it
in normal and fse mode it exists
i think someone else reported this before not sure

sry for the terrible English
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Old 16th October 2012, 11:34   #14808  |  Link
Blight
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madshi:
I addressed the over-complication of the settings dialog (and ZP has a lot of them) in three ways:
1. Split the options into a basic/advanced configuration.
2. Add a centralized documentation, in your case, maybe a wiki would be best.
3. Probably overkill in your situation, but I've also added a search function that scans through the dialogs and highlights the searched item.

I'm not really sure if you have the time for it, but it would simplify some of your interface design decision making.
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Old 16th October 2012, 11:43   #14809  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
bug report:

start a video in windows mode for example a 720 on a 1080p screen
press pause then stop and now press control+enter

the video will be at the top left in original size the rest is black
i can't test it in windows 7 overlay mode because my amd card can't handle it
in normal and fse mode it exists
i think someone else reported this before not sure
Which media player? Which OS? Aero enabled or disabled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blight View Post
madshi:
I addressed the over-complication of the settings dialog (and ZP has a lot of them) in three ways:
1. Split the options into a basic/advanced configuration.
2. Add a centralized documentation, in your case, maybe a wiki would be best.
3. Probably overkill in your situation, but I've also added a search function that scans through the dialogs and highlights the searched item.

I'm not really sure if you have the time for it, but it would simplify some of your interface design decision making.
Yes, both a basic/advanced switch and a settings documention would be a good thing to have, but both would be a lot of work, and it's not the right time for that now, considering that madVR is still lacking a few key features.
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Old 16th October 2012, 12:07   #14810  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I have a very different opinion on this. A new madVR user will be tempted to look at all the settings and understand them. Adding billions of funny checkboxes which are hard to understand will bury the really important settings in a sea of noise. If I had added every funny option any madVR user ever asked for, the settings dialog would have 2 or 3 times as many options as it has now, many of which nobody would ever use or even understand. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that your wish is useless. I said I would think about it. I'm just saying that I generally do have to resist the tendency to overload the madVR settings dialog with funny options.
I agree that an overload of settings should be avoided, but regarding this issue I think it's different.
What is the filename mode detection for? I'd assume to fix wrong flags? That's a good idea, but imho not if it's the default because flags/file headers should be regarded more important than file names since latter can be messed up too easily.
It's like if an anti-virus would catch malware by file names.
It's a good thing though if it's optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
DVD playback is not officially supported by madVR yet. I can't fix things that I don't support and which require hacking the OS for me to even be able to reproduce the problem.
I totally see your point.

DVDs would profit so much from madVR.
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Old 16th October 2012, 12:25   #14811  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Mathias:
Suggestion:
Because you are effectively dealing with the most offensive common problem with a linear light toolchain, namely dark halos (your'e dealing with the light ones too, of course, but they are not the main issue with linear light resampling that uses negative lobe filters), and you are starting to do rather complicated things in the AR toolchain, including Gaussian blur, I suggest that you try your favorite AR toolchain through linear light (into linear light before the resampling filter, out of linear light after the final Gaussian blur) because this will restore, among other things, light <-> dark symmetry, and in particular would prevent the most annoying artifact of sRGB resampling (besides light halos), which is the "thinning" of light on dark features, which AR, I'm sure, can't do anything about.
I have the foolish hope that this may reduce the size of the worst gremlins, as well. (This being said, I still have not read your overall description of how AR works, so everything is based on "I bet it works more or less like this...")
Also, unless you have "fudge factors" in your AR algorithm, I also suggest that you see if you can see a difference when you use a LUT which has more points than what you use now.
-----
When you have time to waste, I suggest that you try EWA Robidoux. Not perfect. But good-cheap-solid.
P.S. "The Recommendations" are in need of an update. Will take a while. Don't take what's there for my current gospel.

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 16th October 2012 at 12:27.
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Old 16th October 2012, 12:31   #14812  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Which media player? Which OS? Aero enabled or disabled?
os win xp 64 win 7 64 win 8 64
mpc hc atm 6086

aero tested with both on and off
double checked on win 7 64
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Old 16th October 2012, 12:57   #14813  |  Link
crotecun
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
I agree that an overload of settings should be avoided, but regarding this issue I think it's different.
What is the filename mode detection for? I'd assume to fix wrong flags? That's a good idea, but imho not if it's the default because flags/file headers should be regarded more important than file names since latter can be messed up too easily.
It's like if an anti-virus would catch malware by file names.
It's a good thing though if it's optional.
From what I've read filename mode detection working that way is not a bug, it's a feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If you add such a tag to a file name, madVR thinks that you want to overwrite the frame rate to 60.000Hz. That's not a bug but intended behaviour. Change it to 1080p59 and the problem should go away.
You should tag it with the correct rate or perhaps leave it from the filename altogether to disable the automatic detection.
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Old 16th October 2012, 13:05   #14814  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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Originally Posted by NicolasRobidoux View Post
Also, unless you have "fudge factors" in your AR algorithm, I also suggest that you see if you can see a difference when you use a LUT which has more points than what you use now.
Clarification: Use a larger LUT for the (EWA) filter itself. Or else, build something that takes into account that there is an epsilon error in the computed values fed to AR.
For example, at locations where there is some ambiguity RE: whether to "chop", blend instead.
AR looks overly eager to me. You can leave some halo. The first halo, in particular, can be argued to increase acutance, so it's not all bad.
Sometimes, "better" is better than "perfect".

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 16th October 2012 at 13:35.
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Old 16th October 2012, 14:19   #14815  |  Link
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
What is the filename mode detection for? I'd assume to fix wrong flags? That's a good idea, but imho not if it's the default because flags/file headers should be regarded more important than file names (
If the flags would have priority, then how would you ever be able to properly playback a file with bad flags ? Not possible !!
With the current system, you add the correct info to the filename and your set : perfect playback !

Last edited by Pat357; 16th October 2012 at 14:23.
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Old 16th October 2012, 14:30   #14816  |  Link
aufkrawall
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If the flags would have priority, then how would you ever be able to properly playback a file with bad flags ?
Well, encoders/muxers usually flag correctly, or not?
In the end, filename detection is a somewhat "hacky" solution, especially if you have no influence on it (hidden magic that has confused you and me).

Quote:
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Not possible !!

With the current system, you add the correct info to the filename and your set : perfect playback !
That's why I like a checkbox.
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Old 16th October 2012, 14:43   #14817  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
In the end, filename detection is a somewhat "hacky" solution, especially if you have no influence on it (hidden magic that has confused you and me).
You have all the influence on it by changing the filename.
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Old 16th October 2012, 15:03   #14818  |  Link
NicolasRobidoux
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To keep noobs out of trouble and the interface clean, have some options only accessible through config files. Emphasis on "only".
Then, your documentation can have a section called "Expert Configuration Options" with a blinking neon sign that says: "You are likely to break things if you mess with this stuff, which caters to the "needs" of the minority that eats bandwidth for breakfast, lunch and dinner on madVR forums. Not to forget the midnight snack."

Last edited by NicolasRobidoux; 16th October 2012 at 19:12.
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Old 16th October 2012, 15:54   #14819  |  Link
TheLion
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i can confirm the dpc problems with my amd 6770 for me they are at 1300 and i didn't notice a problem at all at least nothing i'm aware off.
using a queue like 4/4 solved the "issue" but more interesting is the fact that my hd4000 in the same pc doesn't have any problems with queues like 24/24l the 6770 is still running but all displays are disconnected.
even with 4/4 the error comes back after some time
with evr cp there r no problem at all with dpc spikes.
Yeah, there definitely seems to be a problem with DPC spikes with the combination of AMD/ATI 5xxx/6xxx series and madVR. After my last post I also ran into these issues again. With 8/4 queue sizes and 8 frames in advance it was quite stable but after playback runs a while these dpc spikes crept in again. This still leads to occasional audio drops (no matter how large I set the ASIO buffer). The only way to avoid this is using EVR - sadly.
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Old 16th October 2012, 16:26   #14820  |  Link
aufkrawall
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You have all the influence on it by changing the filename.
If you know that it works that way, but it's nowhere indicated.
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