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Old 19th September 2012, 00:26   #13921  |  Link
dansrfe
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1) How do we determine the gamma/transfer function input and desired output?

2) If we have calibrated our display with the Windows calibration tool (at the moment, and yes madVR does respect the calibrated values. I tested this.) Should we enable "This display is already calibrated and if so which gamma transfer function should we choose (essentially question 1)? After testing and looking at monitor specs I have determined that the gamma level is 2.2 (I didn't touch that while calibrating via the Windows calibration tool).

I've heard some people say that the output gamma should be set to 2.4 for movie content? This tends to darken the gamma bit from 2.2 and seems to either improve or over-darken the picture. Not sure what to conclude on that. Any tips?

Thanks!
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Old 19th September 2012, 01:29   #13922  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
at the moment, and yes madVR does respect the calibrated values. I tested this.
I think the test is simple we just knowingly select wrong things (create visually wrong profile) and check if madvr affected, something like that?
As I understand, you say madvr obeys windows' colors. It is both in windowed and exclusive mode?

EDIT: windows calibration aims for 2.2 gamma (or so I've read somewhere...) so this is probably what you should select, but I'm also interested what about primaries or curve?
Edit2: by the way I found microsoft's images used for calibration to be low quality and inacurate... there is similar tests that give me quite better results
for example this image is better than their circles which makes my eyes bleed http://i.imgur.com/EB4hT.gif
when you go far enough from display so you no longer can distinguish black and white lines - square should be exactly the same color as area around it.

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 19th September 2012 at 01:39.
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Old 19th September 2012, 02:30   #13923  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
I think the test is simple we just knowingly select wrong things (create visually wrong profile) and check if madvr affected, something like that?
As I understand, you say madvr obeys windows' colors. It is both in windowed and exclusive mode?

EDIT: windows calibration aims for 2.2 gamma (or so I've read somewhere...) so this is probably what you should select, but I'm also interested what about primaries or curve?
Edit2: by the way I found microsoft's images used for calibration to be low quality and inacurate... there is similar tests that give me quite better results
for example this image is better than their circles which makes my eyes bleed http://i.imgur.com/EB4hT.gif
when you go far enough from display so you no longer can distinguish black and white lines - square should be exactly the same color as area around it.
I tested if calibration works in exclusive and windowed mode by creating and setting a profile with grossly incorrect values. So that's how I know.

Well, I looked at that square on both my monitor, one of them is an LG WLED 1080p laptop panel and the other is a Dell SP2309W (also probably an LG panel) which is dual CCFL backlight at 2048 x 1152.

I tend not to pay attention to the pictures they have since they are pretty crappy. I just used a few images and the desktop's color (toolbars, icons, etc.). The square looks like it has black lines while the area around it is gray on my SP2309W (which has dedicated RGB controls in the OSD and since it is Wide Gamut I just applied the Wide Gamut RGB profile and didn't touch the software calibration values on it). On my laptop the square's lines look dark yellow and the area around it looks grey. Not sure what's going on around there. For my laptop screen I decreased the blue and green a bit since I think the default calibrated values are for a high color temp (very bluish white).

I'm not really sure how to fix the yellow lines in the square on my laptop screen since when I try to adjust the RGB controls it changes the grey around it as well and basically anything different from the current values only deviates it from the best I can get it to look based on the RGB values set in the previous calibration.

I think I may just invest in a Spyder and calibrate it properly.

Does anyone have any recommendations on calibration devices and what the process is to create a single 3DLUT file which can be pointed to in madVR's calibration setup? The cost of the device is not an issue since I'll probably be using it on multiple monitors and I'll think of it as an investment.

Last edited by dansrfe; 19th September 2012 at 02:34.
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Old 19th September 2012, 02:40   #13924  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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To be honest I don't know about yellow lines... on my dell monitor with icc profile made by dell, square have the same color as area around, which indicates perfect 2.2 gamma.
you can't use this image to configure color though, this is for checking gamma only. maybe your display just old or not at its native resolution or something. but anyway it doesn't looks like something that can be fixed by adjusting r,g or b plane...
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Old 19th September 2012, 02:47   #13925  |  Link
Boltron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Does anyone have any recommendations on calibration devices and what the process is to create a single 3DLUT file which can be pointed to in madVR's calibration setup? The cost of the device is not an issue since I'll probably be using it on multiple monitors and I'll think of it as an investment.
I purchased the X-Rite’s EyeOne Display 3 colorimeter (officially called the i1 Display Pro) and ChromaPure software from http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm

I am very happy with it. It's not a fully pro meter but is very good and very fast to take readings.
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Old 19th September 2012, 02:52   #13926  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
To be honest I don't know about yellow lines... on my dell monitor with icc profile made by dell, square have the same color as area around, which indicates perfect 2.2 gamma.
you can't use this image to configure color though, this is for checking gamma only. maybe your display just old or not at its native resolution or something. but anyway it doesn't looks like something that can be fixed by adjusting r,g or b plane...
I don't know what's going on with my laptop panel. It looks completely fine but when the square picture or even the windows gamma picture with the dots comes on the screen it shows it as being yellow.

This is pretty good too: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php
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Old 19th September 2012, 02:57   #13927  |  Link
dansrfe
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Originally Posted by Boltron View Post
I purchased the X-Rite’s EyeOne Display 3 colorimeter (officially called the i1 Display Pro) and ChromaPure software from http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm

I am very happy with it. It's not a fully pro meter but is very good and very fast to take readings.
Awesome, I'll look into it and possibly buy it today if it's on Amazon.

Is the ChromaPure software any good? I've heard people talk about Argyll CMS and how great it is. I personally don't know that much in-depth information about calibration so I can't really make any judgements on it.
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Old 19th September 2012, 07:44   #13928  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Does anyone have any recommendations on calibration devices
http://www.amazon.com/Pantone-MEU116-ColorMunki-Create-Software/dp/B001E2J464

I got mine for $50 shipped from newegg so the price might lower if you wait a bit, it's an "eye one display 2" with a crippled firmware....but Argyll unlocks it completely, and it also works in Color HCFR 3.x(which is using the Argyll drivers).

Creating 3DLUT's is quite a headache, but at least you'll have a very worthy sensor for little money
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Old 19th September 2012, 17:01   #13929  |  Link
Xello
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I bought the same colorimeter a while back, been using it with HCFR and I must say fantastic buy it's doing the job of a much more expensive meter and very quickly.
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Old 19th September 2012, 17:29   #13930  |  Link
Peekstra
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Only after buying my Eyeone sensor I learned that these devices need to be re-calibrated yearly to stay accurate

Thus making it a less attractive investment then I previously thought it would be.
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Old 19th September 2012, 17:37   #13931  |  Link
omarank
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The crash report didn't help too much, unfortunately. I don't think LAV supports displaying images/pictures? Please check which filters are used on your PC if you try to display pictures. If you can't find out due to the crash, try a different video renderer.
When I try to display pictures, I can see only "Color Space Converter" as the additional filter other than the video renderer. I have checked this using VMR9, Overlay and EVR renderers too.
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Old 19th September 2012, 18:49   #13932  |  Link
dansrfe
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madshi,

Is it possible for you to add a checkbox option to automatically disable the wallpaper changer or basically set it to stop changing the wallpaper while madVR is running and then turn it back on when madVR exits. Kind of the like the refresh rate changer. I have two systems in which my wallpapers change every 10 mins and no matter how much power the system has (CPU/GPU/VRAM) it still makes madVR drop frames when the wallpaper changes.

I would really appreciate this. Thanks!
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Old 19th September 2012, 21:46   #13933  |  Link
n3w813
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See the color tracking of my TV below. Is there anyway I can use tools(?) or manually build a 3DLUT to be used in MadVR to fix the non-linear saturation points of the primaries and secondaries?

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Old 20th September 2012, 02:41   #13934  |  Link
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As of now I know of no way to do that. I would love that ability too if anyone knows how.

It is funny messing around with the color settings on my TV; I can move the 100% secondaries but not <100% so I can get very curved saturations or less curved but never a correct 50% value (like your cyan). It ends up looking better if I leave the TV's settings alone and use MadVR to do any corrections as the <100% values are closer to what MadVR expects based on the primaries.

This is after I figured out a full calibration, I do get pretty good (<4dE) for everything but blue (17dE at 80%). It would be great to be able to use more or all of this information in MadVR but I imagine that would be a pretty big project.

Last edited by Asmodian; 20th September 2012 at 07:58. Reason: added chart
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Old 21st September 2012, 00:37   #13935  |  Link
mark0077
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Hi, I'm using an nVidia card, with these newer drivers that are helping with presentation glitches. Just fyi I have tried disabling the "use a seperate device for presentation", and I get a few frame drops with it from time to time. With it on I get 0 frame drops. Thought I better give that piece of feedback in case options like this might be permanently hidden.

I'm not sure if the intention would be to have this disabled permanently in an ideal world?

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Old 21st September 2012, 01:24   #13936  |  Link
JarrettH
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Do I need to share a sample if I find a movie that isn't deinterlacing properly?

It's this: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0088CHY1U/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
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Old 21st September 2012, 11:19   #13937  |  Link
bjd
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Hi, I'm using an nVidia card, with these newer drivers that are helping with presentation glitches. Just fyi I have tried disabling the "use a seperate device for presentation", and I get a few frame drops with it from time to time. With it on I get 0 frame drops. Thought I better give that piece of feedback in case options like this might be permanently hidden.
XP Users will notice the same thing - had to roll back
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Old 21st September 2012, 18:41   #13938  |  Link
Xaurus
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Guys, I am considering getting a Geforce 650 to replace my 450. Zotac (among others) have versions with 2 GB RAM. Is this beneficial for madvr?
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Old 21st September 2012, 21:37   #13939  |  Link
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Guys, I am considering getting a Geforce 650 to replace my 450. Zotac (among others) have versions with 2 GB RAM. Is this beneficial for madvr?
In my limited experience madVR uses around 250-300MB of GPU memory.
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Old 22nd September 2012, 14:29   #13940  |  Link
oddball
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Is there a way to show the playback time without exiting fullscreen exclusive mode? If I do it using MPC it exits exclusive mode and drops frames and glitches. I am trying to diagnose an issue and need to see the playback time and not cause hiccups in my ctrl-j stats.
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