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Old 15th September 2012, 01:56   #161  |  Link
Myrsloik
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Maybe a threading explanation would be in place. First consider avisynth. With its model every filter needs to implement multithreading itself. And to ever get close to 90% cpu usage every filter has to do it really well. Splitting the workload of a single frame evenly for every core.

This has a couple of problems. One is that few people bother to do it. Another is that even fewer have a good understanding of thread synchronization. It can also be fairly error prone and writing portable code that uses threads also requires some extra library for abstraction.

Instead it becomes much simpler when the threading is handled by the core. For example writing a filter that can process several frames at once only needs one extra rule compared to a serial one in avisynth. Don't modify the shared instance data. That's it. Even the slowest filters can usually be modified with not too much effort to match this. The core can now just assign one frame to each thread for processing.

There should be no real reason for filter writers to handle threading themselves. Actually it would most likely trip up the threading handled by the vapoursynth core.

So to sum it up. Vapoursynth filters as such have to know nothing of threading. They just have to follow a few simple rules that makes it possible to run them in a threaded environment.

I hope this makes sense. I'm so sleepy
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Old 15th September 2012, 04:05   #162  |  Link
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Thanks for the clarification Myrsloik, that makes a lot more sense
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Old 15th September 2012, 11:35   #163  |  Link
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Will there be some kind of threading pool for temporal filters?
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Old 15th September 2012, 11:40   #164  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumbah View Post
Will there be some kind of threading pool for temporal filters?
It's already implemented. See how fast mvtools is now. To the core there's no real difference between spatial and temporal filters.
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Old 15th September 2012, 11:53   #165  |  Link
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after some consideration, I decided to write a small plugin for VapourSynth.

coding was finished in half a day. LINK
Since some changes will be further made before a formal release as for VapourSynth and the license of VS is not clear, i will not distribute binary at soon
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Old 15th September 2012, 11:58   #166  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chikuzen View Post
after some consideration, I decided to write a small plugin for VapourSynth.

coding was finished in half a day. LINK
Since some changes will be further made before a formal release as for VapourSynth and the license of VS is not clear, i will not distribute binary at soon
That could definitely be useful. Now all we need is a VSReader for avisynth and then the insane filtering can begin for real
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Old 16th September 2012, 01:11   #167  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrsloik View Post
...
src = ret
c = core.avs.MSuper(c1=src)
b1v = core.avs.MAnalyse(c1=c, delta=1, isb=False)
f1v = core.avs.MAnalyse(c1=c, delta=1, isb=True)
b2v = core.avs.MAnalyse(c1=c, delta=2, isb=False)
f2v = core.avs.MAnalyse(c1=c, delta=2, isb=True)
ret = core.avs.MDegrain2(c1=src, c2=c, c3=b1v, c4=f1v, c5=b2v, c6=f2v)
ret.output(sys.stdout, y4m=True)
Is correct your script?

In MAnalyse docs:
Quote:
isb : allows to choose between a forward search (motion from the previous frame to current one) for isb=false and a backward search (motion from following frame to the current one) for isb=true (isb stands for "IS Backward", it is implemented and named exactly as written here, do not ask :-). Default isb=false.
The name don't match, but c3 in MDegrain2 must be the backward or the forward?
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Old 16th September 2012, 01:21   #168  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Is correct your script?

In MAnalyse docs:


The name don't match, but c3 in MDegrain2 must be the backward or the forward?
Congratulations! you're the first once to spot that error!

On a side note, I've decided to use the affero GPL and I'm about halfway to having R8 ready.
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Old 16th September 2012, 02:30   #169  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Myrsloik View Post
Congratulations! you're the first once to spot that error!

On a side note, I've decided to use the affero GPL and I'm about halfway to having R8 ready.
Congrats on your decision
Also so I assume with your clarification of the multithreading that you are not considering implementing the multiprocessing module.
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Old 16th September 2012, 03:00   #170  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrsloik View Post
On a side note, I've decided to use the affero GPL.
Will Affero GPL allow dynamic invocation of Vapoursynth without "infecting" the application, i.e., is it like LGPL? If it is not like LGPL, I submit that it may be an unwise decision to use this license.

Assuming that you will allow some kind of LGPL-like licensing, consider this:

In order not to inhibit plugin writers who wished to keep their plugin source private, and other apps that wanted to use Avisynth without disclosing their source, Ben Rudiak-Gould exempted avisynth.h from LGPL and made it freely usable. Will you consider doing the same for your equivalent interface? Thank you.

Last edited by Guest; 16th September 2012 at 03:10.
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Old 16th September 2012, 03:12   #171  |  Link
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
Will Affero GPL allow dynamic invocation of Vapoursynth without "infecting" the application, i.e., is it like LGPL? If it is not like LGPL, I submit that it may be an unwise decision to use this license.

Assuming that you will allow some kind of LGPL-like licensing, consider this:

In order not to inhibit plugin writers who wished to keep their plugin source private, and other apps that wanted to use Avisynth without disclosing their source, Ben Rudiak-Gould exempted avisynth.h from LGPL and made it freely usable. Will you consider doing the same for your equivalent interface? Thank you.
Of course I'll have an exception similar to avisynth.
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Old 16th September 2012, 03:13   #172  |  Link
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Will Affero GPL allow dynamic invocation of Vapoursynth without "infecting" the application, i.e., is it like LGPL? If it is not like LGPL, I submit that it may be an unwise decision to use this license.

Assuming that you will allow some kind of LGPL-like licensing, consider this:

In order not to inhibit plugin writers who wished to keep their plugin source private, and other apps that wanted to use Avisynth without disclosing their source, Ben Rudiak-Gould exempted avisynth.h from LGPL and made it freely usable. Will you consider doing the same for your equivalent interface? Thank you.
Ahem.

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...&postcount=150
http://www.vapoursynth.com/2012/09/r...slowly-coming/

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Old 16th September 2012, 03:18   #173  |  Link
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Well, Daemon404, that's very cute but you missed my point, which I tried to make diplomatically.

Actually, Affero is GPL-like and so is unsuitable for Vapoursynth. I'm interested in the author's opinion on that.
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Old 16th September 2012, 03:26   #174  |  Link
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Well, Daemon404, that's very cute but you missed my point, which I tried to make diplomatically.

Actually, Affero is GPL-like and so is unsuitable for Vapoursynth. I'm interested in the author's opinion on that.
The two thinks I lined were actually relevant. They make is stance on plugins pretty clear. Also he replied above.
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Old 16th September 2012, 03:35   #175  |  Link
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The main point has not been addressed. A GPL-like license does not appear suitable. Please do me a favor and let Myrsloik answer about that if he cares too. Thanks!
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Old 16th September 2012, 09:22   #176  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Is correct your script?

The name don't match, but c3 in MDegrain2 must be the backward or the forward?
Actually, although the script is technically incorrect, it doesn't matter here because MDegrain works symmetrically, using both backward and forward vectors in the same way.
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Old 16th September 2012, 11:20   #177  |  Link
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The main point has not been addressed. A GPL-like license does not appear suitable. Please do me a favor and let Myrsloik answer about that if he cares too. Thanks!
How would it be unsuitable? Avisynth has been doing fine for a long time with gpl+linking exception. I don't see what new problems having licensing pretty much identical to avisynth would cause. Or is there a huge problem with the avisynth licensing too that I've missed?
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Old 16th September 2012, 12:35   #178  |  Link
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When you have the Python installed why Visual C++ 2008 and 2010 are required? Are these two only for plugin coders only or ordinary users also are required to install these two?
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Old 16th September 2012, 12:35   #179  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Chikuzen View Post
after some consideration, I decided to write a small plugin for VapourSynth.

coding was finished in half a day. LINK
Since some changes will be further made before a formal release as for VapourSynth and the license of VS is not clear, i will not distribute binary at soon
how to use it?
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Old 16th September 2012, 12:44   #180  |  Link
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When you have the Python installed why Visual C++ 2008 and 2010 are required? Are these two only for plugin coders only or ordinary users also are required to install these two?
Python needs the vs2008 runtime and vapoursynth needs the 2010 one. I don't see what else there is to say. I do however think python 3.2 installs the 2008 one and I suspect the soon to be released python 3.3 will use the 2010 runtime.

I don't see the problem with this unless there's a misunderstanding somewhere.
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