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Old 6th May 2012, 14:02   #10821  |  Link
JEEB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terence_13 View Post
you need coders to join your project. Its has become to good and important to let it die once you drop the ball (which most coders do after 3-4 years when working as hard as you do). I know you do this just for fun, but your fun has become a stable basis for e.g HTPCs for many people. I guess trying to join forces with people from ffdshow or other projects is not an option?
Let's just get this straight:
  • The project uses Git. Makes it very easy to clone and thus fork, and play with it (as well as make patches that can be passed to the developer in whatever way you wish).
  • Nevcairiel has not as of yet said 'NO U' to any patches.
  • Nevcairiel is available here, on IRC and so forth. Getting patches in if one needs such is very easy.
  • Even if nevcairiel would suddenly one day disappear, the project can be forked very, very easily by people who want or need changes to be done. Once again, "capitalism^Wgit, ho!"
  • LAV Filters have much less legacy hacks related to the ffmpeg libraries (compare to FFDShow, for example, which bears a rather large amount of legacy from the times of milan, when such hacks were most probably just unavoidable), they're almost completely vanilla. Dropping in and updating things couldn't be much easier.
Do pardon me, but I don't really get what you're throwing your hands around about? If someone wants to join the effort, it is very, very easy to do so. Nevcairiel on his side is doing a damn good job, as well as taken notice on certain things people have possibly done in their own forks of LAV Filters.

tl;dr You do not just have other people "join" your project unless there are specific needs, and/or stuff people want to do (because not like you'll keep them coding with money, either -- not to mention that Git makes general contribution to a project and/or a complete fork in case of SuddenDisappearance much, much more easier). And LAV Filters have already become big enough to be a nice thing to contribute to if anyone wants to.
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Old 6th May 2012, 14:20   #10822  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by JEEB View Post
  • Nevcairiel has not as of yet said 'NO U' to any patches.
To be fair, there weren't all that many patches by other people.

Anyway, i think my code isn't all that hard to read (unlike ffdshow *cough*), as evidenced by many people "borrowing" chunks of it into their own software (with or without credit), so if someone wants to contribute a new feature or just fixes, they are free to do so.
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Old 6th May 2012, 15:45   #10823  |  Link
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Originally Posted by terence_13 View Post
nevcairiel, very off-topic, but I need to mention this bleeding obvious fact publically (don't get it wrong):
you need coders to join your project.
Hmmm, I think it's Haali who "needs coders to join his project"
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Old 6th May 2012, 16:34   #10824  |  Link
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I dream of the day that ffdshow is no longer needed and its functionality is available through better software.
Some functionality for which no (good) alternatives are available yet:
* audio mixer => planned for LAV
* DXVA + subs in basic players such as WMP/WMC that have no custom video renderer => maybe xy-vsfilter will support rendering to an output pin in future
* video processing => needs a new standalone filter
* VFW support (VFW is ancient, but still used by several popular video editors) => needs a simple wrapper for FFmpeg, possibly just decoding, encoding is not important.
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Old 6th May 2012, 16:36   #10825  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I just tried, and LAV works just fine with DVDs and madVR for me.

Had to run AnyDVD HD to get rid of the copy protection, but i don't think it ever worked without it.
Have you done any DLL modifications or installed another DVD navigator on your system?

If not, what's your setup?
It's not working on a stock Windows 7 install for me. (I also run AnyDVD HD)
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Old 6th May 2012, 16:38   #10826  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Have you done any DLL modifications or installed another DVD navigator on your system?

If not, what's your setup?
It's not working on a stock Windows 7 install for me. (I also run AnyDVD HD)
This Windows is not even a week old, it doesn't get much more "stock" then that.

I just grabbed latest MPC-HC and latest ffdshow from http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/, latest madVR, and of course my latest development builds of LAV, and put one of the LotR DVDs in the drive, and voila, it played just fine.

I didn't use ReClock, if that maybe matters for something?
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Old 6th May 2012, 18:01   #10827  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Yeah, LAV Audio is the only LAV Filter that shows up with DVDs. Interesting though, as ffdshow Audio Decoder also breaks DVD playback with madVR, but LAV has been fine until now. (0.50.1 works with DVDs)

The reason I posted my full filter list, is that I thought it might help you reproduce the problem, but I understand if it's not a priority for you. I just find it far more convenient to have the ability to play back DVDs off the disc, than having to rip them before playing.
Same with me, LAV Audio is/should be the only thing working

Anything I can report to help fix it? I get the DVD Macrovision fail even if I run AnyDVD now

Windows 7 32-bit
MPC 4235
ffdshow 4440 with libavcodec decoder

Why do newer installs of LAV want a reboot?
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Old 6th May 2012, 18:11   #10828  |  Link
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Is the disc/drive/windows region matched ?
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Old 6th May 2012, 18:59   #10829  |  Link
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You can always try the open source dvd navigator. Was one of the main reasons for making it, to get past the macrovision error, when used with other renderers.
That's what I did, and it worked exactly ONCE before reverting to the "no sound output even though sound track detected"-behavior I described in my post =/
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Old 6th May 2012, 22:19   #10830  |  Link
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Originally Posted by JEEB View Post
...If someone wants to join the effort, it is very, very easy to do so...
That is my whole point: it is easy and still nobody does join.... I fealt inclinded to bring this up, as I am currently trying to revive (meaning: fixing nasty bugs that prevent people from using it) a nice little programm called Media Control that does a splendid job in remote controling FFDshow from Windows Media Center (autorefreshrate, subtitles etc). It used to have a very dedicated coder like nevcairiel, but he ran out of time. I think nevcairiel indicated several times he would appreciate support, but here we are....nothing...

Anyway, did not want to hijack this thread, but I do think LAVFILTERs does deserve at least as many contribiturs as FFDShow (just check over at sourceforge)
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Old 7th May 2012, 00:01   #10831  |  Link
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ffdshow only has a few contributors that are still somewhat active. ffdshow has the development pace of an elderly pedestrian, while nevcairiel is cruising on the Autobahn at 200mph.
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Old 7th May 2012, 00:06   #10832  |  Link
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ffdshow has one major contributor, Haruhiko Yamagata, so that's probably not a good comparison. Clsid and a couple of others fix bugs and perform minor updates from time to time but that project does languish a little.

You beat me to it Clsid. :P

Yes I agree LAV filters has become pretty much THE dominant splitter & decoder package and yes it is surprising that there aren't more developers out there wanting to work on media players/filters and decoders for the community.
However, while there's a desire to tinker and improve, development WILL happen sooner of later, sometimes there just needs to be that tipping point or driving force to get someone motivated enough to start.
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Old 7th May 2012, 00:43   #10833  |  Link
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Hi Nev,
I'd like to report yet another FLV4/VP6 bug; I think it's a libavcodec issue but not sure.
A sample is here.
As the video progresses, PQ becomes worse and worse, it can be seen easily on the newscaster's face 10 seconds in.
No such issue happens when decoding with the On2 VP6 directshow decoder.
Any idea?
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Old 7th May 2012, 01:01   #10834  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terence_13 View Post
...
Never heard of the app/filter, but sure is still alive, by the original dev too. If it was ever broken for a long amount of time, it meant that people either didn't care about it, or didn't know of it. I don't use the Windows Media Center for one, thus the project would be waaay off my chart of interest (nor do I use remote controls with my PCs). In short: Developers don't come around if they don't have their own interest in it (something in it for themselves).

Also, you're trying to say that no-one else is doing anything for LAV. People have found buggy samples and made up small parts of them that would replicate the problem easily, posted bug reports that should be easy to handle and so forth. Also, a patch that was originally written by Lord for the CCCP got into LAV's mainline in one way or another... is this still "no-one is helping/doing anything at all"? For crying it out loud, people also report bugs in ffmpeg/libav so that things would get fixed in LAV, which uses ffmpeg's code (which also merges changes from the libav side).

Edit: If I weren't busy with my own things I would be checking out libavresample/libswresample APIs to see how to implement a mixer in LAV, although nev had already mentioned he was interested implementing it himself. Unfortunately, I am both busy as well as lack the API knowledge to quickly see how it could be implemented. Derp.

People are working on LAV, and nevcairiel is a very active developer that leaves very little amount of people going for a fix regarding things that have been broken for a while. Why? Because the darn bugs get fixed before that, as you report them. Now, if someone had some project and/or need for LAV that nev wouldn't want to implement himself but would be ready to accept, then you would probably see someone working around in his own fork to make patches that could then be merged into mainline (mainline pushing rights really don't mean much in Git world as work can be easily done without them as well). Put this in other words, should the LAV Filters' development stagnate, and bugs would start to arise, we would most probably see some developer(s) doing work in their own forks.

But I feel that I am talking to a wall...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
...
Try with ffplay or by outputting ffvhuff or pngs with ffmpeg (or even with a new'ish mplayer(2) if you wish). Also make sure to turn all sorts of post-processing off from the VP6 decoder to make sure you are getting a non-post-processed picture from the decoder. If the results still don't match up, hit up ffmpeg's trac, see if there is anything similar, and if there is none -- post a new bug report for libavcodec. Otherwise add yourself in a comment for the related bug report.
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Old 7th May 2012, 11:56   #10835  |  Link
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yes it is surprising that there aren't more developers out there wanting to work on media players/filters and decoders for the community.
Maybe there just aren't that many talented coders that want to work for free, in their time off Even big open source projects are normally done by just a handful of guys, sometimes even 1 guy. Look at media player classic, just made by Gabest basically. It's also not easy to just start working on someone elses project, it can take significant time to understand how other peoples code even works, before you can start to do anything useful with it.
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:13   #10836  |  Link
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I can say if I had coding experience I'd be helping out, Avisynth script serving.. yes please. Perhaps the software just works well enough to not warrant new people wanting to get stuck in, or perhaps it's the factors you mentioned, there's no doubt many reasons. I will say, it's a little sad when original coders disappear as they never seem to return.. Always wondered why they just up and leave their babies to other people to rear without so much as a helping hand along the way.
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:16   #10837  |  Link
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...while nevcairiel is cruising on the Autobahn at 200mph...
I hope he will not run out of fuel
Great work, keep cruising nevcairiel!
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:22   #10838  |  Link
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Indeed, we are spoilt a little me thinks. One more week and we get Madshi back too.. :P
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:38   #10839  |  Link
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One more week, and i'll be gone though.
Can't help it, just have to play Diablo3 all day then.
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:50   #10840  |  Link
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Okay.. nobody tell Madshi about Diablo III.. ya'll be be vewy vewy quiet.

Also I know a guy who knows a guy who's taking a whole month off to play it.
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