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Old 4th April 2012, 20:26   #10241  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Thats just how DirectShow works.

The one is a Source Filter, it reads files/streams directly and demuxes them. Not much else to it.

The other is a Splitter Filter, it gets the stream from another DirectShow source filter, and then demuxes it.
The Splitter Filter always needs another Filter to read the file or the stream for it. The most basic case is the "File Source (Async)" filter, which just reads files, but it could be a more advanced streaming filter or in theory even a Live TV Source (although that probably won't work right).

The first case (LAV as pure Source Filter) has a little less overhead, and for proper handling of streaming protocols its required to be used. Generally this is the better choice to use.
The second case (LAV only as Splitter Filter) has the advantage that it doesn't need to manually be hooked up to all sorts of file extensions, but instead most players will just load a "File Source (Async)" when no other Source Filter is found, which is then connected to LAV Splitter, and it can then probe the stream itself without relying on the file extension (identifying the format based on byte-markers in the file)

So, even in a properly setup system, both have their uses.
The LAV Installer will setup the Source Filter to be used for all common extensions, so that the slightly more efficient way is used, and register the Splitter Filter so that its available for all the other cases.

For comparison, Haali has the same setup.
Its "Source Filter" is just called Haali Media Splitter, and the "Splitter Filter" is called Haali Media Splitter (AR)

Just don't worry about it.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 4th April 2012 at 20:31.
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Old 4th April 2012, 20:40   #10242  |  Link
mbordas
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So it might be slightly more efficient to add lav splitter source to the mpc-hc external filter list, than just lav splitter?
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Old 4th April 2012, 20:42   #10243  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbordas View Post
So it might be slightly more efficient to add lav splitter source to the mpc-hc external filter list, than just lav splitter?
Adding a pure source filter to the external filter list has no real advantages, because MPC-HC doesn't know which formats to use it for. Adding it does no harm of course, and there may be 1-2 cases where it actually helps, but only if you have more then one source filter for a particular format installed.

If you want to use the Source Filter, use the Installer. It should set everything up for all the common formats. If there is more common formats that the installer doesn't take care of, just let me know.
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Old 4th April 2012, 21:09   #10244  |  Link
wo0zy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Thats just how DirectShow works.

The one is a Source Filter, it reads files/streams directly and demuxes them. Not much else to it.

The other is a Splitter Filter, it gets the stream from another DirectShow source filter, and then demuxes it.
The Splitter Filter always needs another Filter to read the file or the stream for it. The most basic case is the "File Source (Async)" filter, which just reads files, but it could be a more advanced streaming filter or in theory even a Live TV Source (although that probably won't work right).

The first case (LAV as pure Source Filter) has a little less overhead, and for proper handling of streaming protocols its required to be used. Generally this is the better choice to use.
The second case (LAV only as Splitter Filter) has the advantage that it doesn't need to manually be hooked up to all sorts of file extensions, but instead most players will just load a "File Source (Async)" when no other Source Filter is found, which is then connected to LAV Splitter, and it can then probe the stream itself without relying on the file extension (identifying the format based on byte-markers in the file)

So, even in a properly setup system, both have their uses.
The LAV Installer will setup the Source Filter to be used for all common extensions, so that the slightly more efficient way is used, and register the Splitter Filter so that its available for all the other cases.

For comparison, Haali has the same setup.
Its "Source Filter" is just called Haali Media Splitter, and the "Splitter Filter" is called Haali Media Splitter (AR)

Just don't worry about it.
Awesome! Thank you Nev!

Bookmarked so I don't ask again in 500 pages time
Cheers,

Wo0zy

Last edited by wo0zy; 4th April 2012 at 21:30.
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Old 4th April 2012, 21:47   #10245  |  Link
hubblec4
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thanks Nev.
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Old 5th April 2012, 00:38   #10246  |  Link
Pat357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanezhiling View Post
Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Media Type\Extensions]

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Media Type\Extensions\.avi]
"Media Type"="{E436EB83-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}"
"SubType"="{e436eb88-524f-11ce-9f53-0020af0ba770}"
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"
Now avi and ts are ok, but .wmv..
Like you said, adding a new entry can make the LAV Source work in MPC-HC.
Not a big deal though I dont know where the problem is.
Was is just the installer that made "lav splitter source" the dedicated splitter for .AVI files or did you change it manually ?
The reason I'm asking is that I always used the installer, but there was never a dedicated source file for AVI.
That's why I assumed that the installer doesn't write anything for AVI. Apparently it does, but somehow Win7 doesn't allow it for some reason, at least on my system.

This could also be the reason why your .WMV is not dedicated to LAV splitter source.. : protected by the OS, the installer is not allowed to change these specific values.

As I think further about always using LAV splitter source for AVI : is it even a smart thing to do ?

Will the source/splitter be able to handle VfW codecs that are normally handled by the "MS AVI decompressor" ?
The latter is available on every Windows system and will use the appropriate VfW codec to decode the file.

I use for example the Huffyuv_mt codec to to a lossless compression to an intermediate file using VirtualDub from my .AVS script.
The difference between the Huffyuv_mt and the normal is that the _mt can also multithreaded encode (compress) and saves me a lot of time because of this.

Thanks to the "MS AVI decompressor", I can open the compressed files in Vdub and, with a small work-around, in every DirectShow based media player like MPC-HC, PotP, ZoomP,...

I don't think that Lav splitter source would handle everything correct in such situations....., but I haven't done any testing for this, so maybe it works after all.

PS: I'm very aware that VfW is old and outdated, but if it comes to fast and efficient lossless compression/decoding, there are no other, comparable, options available.
Even if the decoding is fast and MT, the compression from a 2h movie in single thread kills the fun.

Last edited by Pat357; 5th April 2012 at 00:41.
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Old 5th April 2012, 01:28   #10247  |  Link
wanezhiling
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I recommend source filter if you use PotPlayer.

Splitter filter loses control in some cases.
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Old 5th April 2012, 06:31   #10248  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat357 View Post
Will the source/splitter be able to handle VfW codecs that are normally handled by the "MS AVI decompressor" ?
The DirectShow AVI Decompressor is a decoder, it should work in conjunction with any splitter. If you use the MS AVI Splitter or LAV Splitter should not matter.
If something works with the MS AVI Splitter and not with LAV, then thats a bug and should be handled as such.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 5th April 2012 at 07:02.
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Old 5th April 2012, 14:20   #10249  |  Link
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@Nev
I would say the .ts part is very stable now if not even super stable (Multiplex support Performance and Improving Seek could be next) i found several samples though where seeking fails (though i dunno how to get those samples yet to you without fixing them but i working on it) with lav splitter but works with AV Splitter according to Eduard he uses some older parser code he also made it available http://avsplitter.avmedia.su/en/cont...-visual-studio , his splitter also doesn't crash Mainconcepts Decoder one big issue with Lav Splitter currently. I did also several Performance tests both are very near each other behave almost the same (not surprising @ all both being ffmpeg based).
Seeeking experience with DXVA Lav Video is very good especially if most of the frames are in memory already it's super fast IO wise and very low IO going on on the HDD very neat experience see ultrafastseek Video (though i only tested Intel Quicksync and DXVA, not sure who else can hold up with this @ HD), i wonder if it wouldn't make sense especially for systems with a lot of RAM (and all other requirements necessary for this) to load a whole bunch of the Video into memory (as fast as possible before playback and continuously load more progressively ahead @ normal playback so higher the buffer for DXVA playback, to always allow a very instant seek experience)
Of course you could also use a RAM drive and temporarily transfer the whole Video to it for the playback , make a copy on load of the Video to the RamDrive and then playback from their this should allow instant seek for the whole Video (including instant scrubbing), though would be then the job of the Host of Lav Fillters to do this then

Though MPC-HC has a lot of issues with this 1st mentioned here is it keeps Audio Playback @ every seek operation be it fast forward, instant scrubbing or any small seek this causes sound distortions per excellence especially @ 4x speed you have chipmunks live (very disturbing)
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Old 5th April 2012, 14:58   #10250  |  Link
wanezhiling
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nev, I found an odd thing.

My system is win7 x86.

ts and tp are available in HKCL\Media Type\Extensions after using LAV installer, but once I ran PotPlayer(just run it), ts and tp vanish..

I tested for several times and I can ensure its PotPlayer which indeed deleted the ts/tp extension.

Why PotPlayer do that?
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Old 5th April 2012, 15:36   #10251  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Why PotPlayer do that?
Because its evil.
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Old 5th April 2012, 15:42   #10252  |  Link
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Maybe it makes the keys itself and if it doesn't find them in their own key registry system (look in the player for associations) it deletes them on start thinking you never wanted to have them (only thinking in their own application space), would be illogical though todo that this way it's like forcing a browser as standard without asking the user
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Last edited by CruNcher; 5th April 2012 at 15:46.
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Old 5th April 2012, 15:54   #10253  |  Link
wanezhiling
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So I should do something.. Hope they'll give a logical explanation tomorrow Friday.
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Old 5th April 2012, 15:57   #10254  |  Link
BetA13
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Hy all again,

i just tryed that "Ducks take off" quad HD video...Isnt it supposed to get rendered via teh GPU (CUVID) ?
Cause when i test it, it uses AVCODEC via CPU, all 4 cores @ 100% = 2 FPS...
i did set up LAV Filters liek they should..im using a gtx460 here and win 7.

anyone can help me out here? Or isnt CUVID supporting quad hd thingy?

Thanks for any Help...

greetz BetA

edit:

heres a screen of it...its the same with EVR as output...


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Old 5th April 2012, 15:58   #10255  |  Link
nevcairiel
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The GTX 460 does not support QHD (4K)
You need a VP5 card (VDPAU Feature Set D), right now thats only the GT 520 and the GTX 680, and some mobile cards.

PS:
You must have an incredibly slow CPU if you can only get 2 FPS out of it. o.O
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Old 5th April 2012, 16:06   #10256  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The GTX 460 does not support QHD (4K)
You need a VP5 card (VDPAU Feature Set D), right now thats only the GT 520 and the GTX 680, and some mobile cards.

PS:
You must have an incredibly slow CPU if you can only get 2 FPS out of it. o.O
well..my cpu isnt slow at all..its old but still rocking the Battlefield, ehhe..

Q9550 @ 3.8 GHZ...
should i have more FPS? When the ducks take off and the water starts to ripple, then the frames go to 1-3 FPS...Before that, when the water is still, i have around 20 fps....

And thank u for teh fast Answer
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Old 5th April 2012, 17:06   #10257  |  Link
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I think you should have more FPS yes. Tried fullscreen exclusive mode? Windowed stutters a bit for me (i5 2500k@4.5ghz) but exclusive (old path) is butter smooth. 36% CPU usage, never used CUVID but I don't think 4k would work on my GTX 275.

Last edited by kalston; 5th April 2012 at 17:12.
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Old 5th April 2012, 17:16   #10258  |  Link
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I can play that quad HD video using software decoding on my i7-920 @ 3.8 GHz with MadVR. CPU usage is ~85% though and it's not smooth all the way through (doubled/dropped frame once or twice during the 17 seconds).

I also have to open it in MPC-HC (which auto-plays it), then stop it and manually start playing it again otherwise I get like 1 FPS. Might be cos it's on a network share and not a local drive.
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Old 5th April 2012, 17:20   #10259  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalston View Post
I think you should have more FPS yes. Tried fullscreen exclusive mode? Windowed stutters a bit for me (i5 2500k@4.5ghz) but exclusive (old path) is butter smooth. 36% CPU usage, never used CUVID but I don't think 4k would work on my GTX 275.
using exclusive mode here also..
i tried teh 1080p one, and it uses CUVID there, but when the ripple starts teh gpu usage goes down and also the FPS..i dont really understand..i can playback 1080p Game videos from Fraps, etc..with a much higher bitrate..and that smooth...

Could u please PM me or post here ur settings in MADVR, LAV and mpchc? maybe i have set something wrong here...

greetings, BetA
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Old 5th April 2012, 17:40   #10260  |  Link
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well..my cpu isnt slow at all..its old but still rocking the Battlefield, ehhe..

Q9550 @ 3.8 GHZ...
should i have more FPS?
Try with different renderer, like EVR or EVR CP. I think MadVR is eating up your GPU via resizing ...
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