Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > New and alternative a/v containers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 29th April 2011, 04:55   #2021  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,751
Yes, Andy, but on rented discs that's not a viable solution.
__________________
HTPC1:W8.1 Pro, I7 3770k, GTX 680, Pioneer Elite SC-65
HTPC2:W8.1 Pro, I5 2400s, GTS 450, Pioneer Elite VX21-THX
Laptop: MSI GT70 Dominator
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 05:10   #2022  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 928
Oh sorry I didn't mean you guys, I was answering to robpdotcom who was talking about mkvs:
Quote:
Both work perfectly by setting Subtitle Selection Mode to "Only Forced Subs" and Blu-ray Subtitles to "Deliver only Forced Subtitles".

I can see though, how his will be tricky to select full subtitles in a pgs stream....
Should have used the quote button.
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 05:28   #2023  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
Subtitle Dropping Issues: Using D9 as the test disc. Start playback at Chapter 4 (time code 20:33) and the Subs work fine from here till 21:15, they should start again at 21.25 but don't appear. It always happens exactly at that point. I've tried multiple FFDSHOW builds (clid's Generic, clid's ICL10, XhmikosR's icl 12). Issue happens using both madVR and EVR so it is not the Video Renderer.

EDIT: Don't know why I did not test this early! If I leave LAVSplitter with "Full Subtitles", and "Only with matching language" / "Deliver only Forced Subtitles" unchecked then there is no issue with the subtitles dropping (of course I now get all subs not just forced subs). It looks like a bug in LAV reliably delivering just forced subs with FFDSHOW.

Last edited by jmone; 29th April 2011 at 05:44. Reason: More Info
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 06:09   #2024  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Thats nothing a decoder would do. Thats all the renderers doing, and ReClock is the only reliable WASAPI (=exclusive) renderer i know.
But even when using WASAPI, it doesn't magically switch output configurations - ReClock has an option to do this for you ("Set matching speaker configuration")
FYI - MC16 support WASAPI and WASAPI Event Style with options for:
- Exclusive Mode
- Flush devise buffers (start up and on pause)
- Present 24-Bit data in 32 Bit package

Also enables the use of their DSP including stuff like:
- Output Format (resampling/bitdepth, channel mixing etc)
- EQ
- Video Sync (keep audio in sync with the video by resampling) - thanks to madshi for helping out on this one!
- Room Correction
- other stuff!

The only downside is it only works in MC16 (it is not a seperate DirectShow filter).
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 06:48   #2025  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Sigh. This isn't a good situation for us. I wish we could have the sub rendering code from mpc in mc16.
How about DirectVobSub? It should be the same renderer as MPC-HCs, except that it applys it onto the decoded image, not the rendered image. At least with Blu-rays, that are 1080p from the start, you don't get scaling issues - just chroma upsampling issues. Nothing that ffdshow wouldn't also suffer from.

And what the hell, while i'm sleeping you guys produce 2+ pages of comments.

Anyhow, i have alot of discs myself, including Salt, D9 and several others.
From the list in that AVS thread, forced subs inside the normal track are far more common, it seems. I do however have some discs that also have separate tracks for the subs (I don't remember exactly, but i watched one just 2 weeks ago or so - The Expendables it might have been)

The filtering code is pretty dumb right now, i only tested on that one disc - which worked fine. But i can imagine situations where it would cause some issues - not sure if those actually exist in real-life though.

What the filtering does is produce "holes" in the sub stream, usually they seem to be numbered sequentally, now some are missing - maybe ffdshow can't deal.

@MakeMKV:
Flagging the tracks as forced is not important in this scenario. I would however be surprised if it modifys the flags in the PGS frames, just because simply copying is so much easier then rewriting them - so it should preserve those flags.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 29th April 2011 at 07:08.
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 07:34   #2026  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
How about DirectVobSub?
Unless I've missed something, it does not have PGS supports which makes it kinda pointless these days. The benefit of FFDSHOW is they added PGS support at the end of last year.

Quote:
And what the hell, while i'm sleeping you guys produce 2+ pages of comments.
Imagine what would happen if you slept in!

Quote:
What the filtering does is produce "holes" in the sub stream, usually they seem to be numbered sequentally, now some are missing - maybe ffdshow can't deal.
EDIT: That is exactly what it feels like from my end. The FORCED subs stop displaying once a "normal" sub has been supressed.

Last edited by jmone; 29th April 2011 at 07:40.
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 07:42   #2027  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
As an idea - instead of producing holes, could you present blanks instead?
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 08:21   #2028  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
Unless I've missed something, it does not have PGS supports which makes it kinda pointless these days.
It uses the same logic to render subs as the MPC-HC internal renderer - it just looks like there is a missing media type for the DirectVobSub subtitle pin - i'll test later and possibly add it.
The only "problem" is that it doesn't support NV12, only YV12 - so you wouldn't be able to use it with LAV CUVID, unless i manage to add support for that too.

(Edit: Adding NV12 support to DirectVobSub seems hard, would probably be easier to add YV12 output to LAV CUVID.....)

I'm also pondering if it would be possible to write a sub renderer using the MPC-HC rendering code which would hook into the sub rendering interface of madVR, basically how MPC-HC works, just as a standalone filter.
It would however be limited to madVR (and the Haali renderer).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
As an idea - instead of producing holes, could you present blanks instead?
Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that much about the PGS format itself..
I'll test with ffdshow when i get home from work.
Maybe its an easy fix in ffdshow sub rendering code...
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 29th April 2011 at 08:49.
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 08:42   #2029  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 928
Sigh, good news and bad news. Good news, the Tourist works fine, just like Paprika did. Bad news, I spent my free rental on The Tourist.
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:00   #2030  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
From what i gathered from the last two pages - the subtitle filtering works fine in principal, as long as you use the MPC-HC renderer, right? Any discs (or mkvs) it failed on? (ignoring ffdshow issues for now)
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:20   #2031  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 928
I'm using the MPC renderer, yes. The only available titles I have right now with forced subs are those two, Paprika and The Tourist. I think we can add Avatar and District 9 to the list of working titles too.
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:28   #2032  |  Link
Nexin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 141
@nevcairiel Some Praise and idea for inclusion into ffdshow asap and keep in sync with versions <>

Thanks to you both for the development and updating of LAVSplitter. Moreover making LAVSplitter available for us all to use
Nexin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:30   #2033  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
I don't think thats a good idea. ffdshow is a decoder, adding a splitter in there is weird .. (also, i have my own Audio Decoder, which would conflict with ffdshow - and i rather distribute both)
Additionally, i do not care for the extra work keeping it in sync.

Then there is the whole ffmpeg version issue...

Just install both packages, i don't think thats too much to ask.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:50   #2034  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
It uses the same logic to render subs as the MPC-HC internal renderer - it just looks like there is a missing media type for the DirectVobSub subtitle pin - i'll test later and possibly add it.
The only "problem" is that it doesn't support NV12, only YV12 - so you wouldn't be able to use it with LAV CUVID, unless i manage to add support for that too.

(Edit: Adding NV12 support to DirectVobSub seems hard, would probably be easier to add YV12 output to LAV CUVID.....)

I'm also pondering if it would be possible to write a sub renderer using the MPC-HC rendering code which would hook into the sub rendering interface of madVR, basically how MPC-HC works, just as a standalone filter.
It would however be limited to madVR (and the Haali renderer).



Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that much about the PGS format itself..
I'll test with ffdshow when i get home from work.
Maybe its an easy fix in ffdshow sub rendering code...
All good ideas, and I would plug for the following, but given your time is precious, I'd also put them in this order:
1) Mod LAVSplitter to output a (forced) SUB stream that is compatible with a wide range of decoders as possible (incl FFDSHOW) OR if it already does then it is a bug in FFDSHOW that needs to be fixed
2) Mod DirectVobSub to support pgs
3) Write a new Sub Renderer (happy that it would only support madVR but that means you could not use it with DVD's at present).

OR - since it is a rendering role, and Madshi has been kicking back recently get him to build it into madVR
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 09:53   #2035  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
1) Mod LAVSplitter to output a (forced) SUB stream that is compatible with a wide range of decoders as possible (incl FFDSHOW) OR if it already does then it is a bug in FFDSHOW that needs to be fixed
I'll try to fix it in LAV Splitter, maybe there is something simple to be done.
Maybe i can output dummy, blank packages .. or adjust the id in the packages .. i'll look into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
2) Mod DirectVobSub to support pgs
That'll be easy. In addition i'll add YV12 output to LAV CUVID so those two can be used together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
3) Write a new Sub Renderer (happy that it would only support madVR but that means you could not use it with DVD's at present).
I don't think i'll be doing this, its a whole new world of pain.. and, no practical use for me, i use MPC-HC.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 10:30   #2036  |  Link
jmone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 571
Sounds good to me for 1 and if that fails 2 + I agree on your comments for 3 (unless an earlier hint of LAVVideo was true in which case.....) Anyway, Filters are like bad habits, I'm always trying to cut down the number I have!
jmone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 10:31   #2037  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 8,747
There will be a LAV Video, but it won't do subtitles.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 10:38   #2038  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
OR - since it is a rendering role, and Madshi has been kicking back recently get him to build it into madVR
Who's Madshi? What's madVR? Huh? What are you talking about?
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 10:41   #2039  |  Link
fastplayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
There will be a LAV Video, but it won't do subtitles.
...and so the circle is complete.
fastplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th April 2011, 11:09   #2040  |  Link
joeydrunk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
So mochc dies.allow.the flags through than. What exactly are you saying about this particular situation? When using makemkv we just have to make sure and always check the forced sub box if we want to be able to watch forced only and regular subs separately?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
Just tested this with two mkv's: The Tourist, with which I did not extract a separate, forced sub stream (so, the forced subs are embedded in the normal subs stream); and Avatar which I had previously ripped by extracting the extra forced stream (flagged as forced by mmg).....

Both work perfectly by setting Subtitle Selection Mode to "Only Forced Subs" and Blu-ray Subtitles to "Deliver only Forced Subtitles".

I can see though, how his will be tricky to select full subtitles in a pgs stream....

Would it be possible for LAVSplitter to create a virtual "forced" track, which will load automatically, then you can then select the full subs, for example, via Right Click > Navigate, or even by the player's "next subtitle" keyboard shortcut ("S" in MPC-HC)?
joeydrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
decoders, directshow, filters, splitter

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.