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Old 22nd February 2011, 20:27   #1  |  Link
jalyst
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HDMI device that can capture (unencrypted) "HD" audio sources?

I want one for legitimate reasons, not for some organisation's definition of pirating...
I'm interested for the purpose of capturing HD audio (normally found in BD's & PS3 Games, rarely XB360) via HDMI,
running it through a HRTF filter (for 2ch simulated surround), & then out through my modded Essence ST.

I realise with BD movies I can already do this in windows without the need for a capture card, so long as I have a PAP compliant card, BD reader, & softplayer that can do DH or similar.
And it's irrelevant whether my card is PAP compliant in Linux, so once the BD is ripped I should also be able to do this.

But as my Essence ST is not PAP compliant, it's not possible to handle the HD audio stream via the PAP process in Windows.
Capturing BD output from my PS3 via HDMI (once HDCP is stripped) should remove the PAP burden, then hopefully I can pass the signal to a HRTF filter, and then onto my Essence ST.

Another reason for HDMI capture is HD audio from console games...

Again I want my Essence ST to be the final DAC in the chain, not an AVR.
The only concern I have is desync, but if audio & video are passed to the capture device & video "passed-through", then clocking should remain "fairly" in-sync.
Of course because of the post-processing assoc/w running through a filter and then on to the ST, tweaking of timings will be necessary.

Sorry if this doesn't clearly convey what I'm wanting, 5am, need some sleep!
Thank-you for your time/thoughts/advice, good night.

Last edited by jalyst; 11th April 2011 at 15:31.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 00:23   #2  |  Link
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would SPDIF do the trick? ps3 can output that, at least from an unencrypted blu-ray (i haven't used a ps3 for anything except checking BD-R's before replication).

otherwise you can grab a blackmagic card that captures HDMI, though it might be a touch expensive for this purpose.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 07:01   #3  |  Link
jalyst
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Hi Mug thanks for the thoughts/input, tis greatly appreciated!

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Originally Posted by Mug Funky View Post
would SPDIF do the trick?
Nah S/PDIF cannot transfer any of the HD audio formats, best it can do is DD/DTS 5.1.

Quote:
ps3 can output that, at least from an unencrypted blu-ray (i haven't used a ps3 for anything except checking BD-R's before replication).
I don't own a PS3 yet, but if what I'm suggesting is do-able (so I can use my ST in Windows for BD playback), then I'll prolly get one.
I do own an XB360 Slim, it doesn't do Blueray, but some Xbox games use DD and DTS HD audio formats.*

I want a HDCP compliant card so conversion from multi-ch HD to 2ch simulated surround can be done, & then passed to my ST for DAC.
The same would be handy for game audio coming from a PS3, if/when I get one.

Quote:
otherwise you can grab a blackmagic card that captures HDMI, though it might be a touch expensive for this purpose.
Not sure I want to touch a blackmagic with a 10-foot pole.
Not after what's been said here & in the thread linked to from there.
If what I'm wanting is do-able with the right hardware/software/tweaking, & results in reliable functionality, then the price is worth it IMO.

I've seen users on this forum mention many other cards that can capture HDCP sources.
I'm just not certain if what I'm proposing will be do-able with any of them...
Any ideas on how to proceed? Do you know of anyone more knowledgeable in this area?

Thanks again & all the best.
*Not nearly as many as PS3 I believe...

Last edited by jalyst; 23rd February 2011 at 07:28.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:32   #4  |  Link
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No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.

For consumer segment that's considered to be a copyright infringement.
For professional segment there's no need for this (no signals in studios are protected).

Dead end
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:40   #5  |  Link
jalyst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.
There's at least a couple in the thread i linked to that people have used for that purpose.
Admittedly some no longer work with recent driver updates.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:41   #6  |  Link
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Please show me one single capture card that captures HDCPed HDMI.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:43   #7  |  Link
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Just have a look in that thread i linked to.

Thanks.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:45   #8  |  Link
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They capture analog, not HDMI-in. They even say this is impossible.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 08:52   #9  |  Link
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...32#post1457132
there's one or two other exmples if i recall correctly
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Old 23rd February 2011, 09:02   #10  |  Link
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Buy one then. But do not confound the ability to display HDCP video in overlay with the ability to record/save that video on the HDD.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 09:13   #11  |  Link
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I'm guessing you mean "confuse"
But that's the whole point of a capture card, capture the source material locally for manipulation.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 09:19   #12  |  Link
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Buy it if you're so sure.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 09:23   #13  |  Link
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I was kind of hoping for a succinct explanation as to why it will or won't be possible to manipulate the HD audio once captured.
Video I mainly just want to "pass through" via the capture device, or if not possible, then just connect straight to the display.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 09:26   #14  |  Link
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It's only 99$ on Amazon. That's cheap compared to other HDMI-in cards. Why not testing it yourself?
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Old 23rd February 2011, 18:50   #15  |  Link
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well mainly because I'd rather no throw $99 down the drain

*update*
another thread going here that may be of interest
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...=1#post2059206

night.

Last edited by jalyst; 23rd February 2011 at 18:54.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 21:01   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
No capture card ever can capture HDCP signals.

For consumer segment that's considered to be a copyright infringement.
For professional segment there's no need for this (no signals in studios are protected).

Dead end
Of course such things exist. It doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that HDCP has been cracked since sometime last year. A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI), but many of those countries have gotten stricter anticircumvention laws since then, so now you have to look a bit harder. If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself, but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.

Edit: additionally, now that the PS3 has been jailbroken, it'll probably be possible to just disable HDCP on the PS3 side soon as well.

Last edited by TheFluff; 23rd February 2011 at 21:41.
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Old 23rd February 2011, 22:42   #17  |  Link
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There are some lcd tv's out there that contain a chip that does fast hdmi switching between various hdmi connectors in the back - the output of that chip is unprotected hdmi so you can solder the hdmi wires to the output pins and have hdmi out.

I think the particular tv in the "white paper" was a Samsung that had 3 hdmi inputs in the back and advertised fast hdmi switching - I don't remember the link anymore but I think it was stored on Google. Maybe search my previous posts for a link, I'm too lazy to do it.
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Old 24th February 2011, 03:34   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Not sure I want to touch a blackmagic with a 10-foot pole.
i feel a slight affinity for BMD products, mainly because i worked at the place BMD (and before that, digital voodoo) started from.

call it stockholm syndrome... this was a post house that did not treat it's workers well, but gave many talented people a start. this guy built a capture card in the back utility room, started a company, then got screwed, then came back to the same place, built another capture card, started another company, and now they're taking over the post-hardware world (buying up DaVinci is huge).

to be honest, i wasn't aware that HDMI even supported 480p... certainly no editing program supports it. that is probably why support is hard to get from them - they're bogged down with idiots who think they can edit just because they bought a mac and final cut studio, asking the same questions over-and-over (i'm justified in this opinion - i've had to fix many, many messed up FCP projects made by people that didn't know how to edit)

on the HDCP issue, i've no idea. perhaps a PS3 firmware hack will emerge that doesn't apply HDCP in the first place?
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Old 24th February 2011, 06:32   #19  |  Link
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Of course such things exist. It doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that HDCP has been cracked since sometime last year. A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI), but many of those countries have gotten stricter anticircumvention laws since then, so now you have to look a bit harder. If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself, but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.
Of course these things do not exist. And you just confirmed it. Because why the need for an HDCP-stripper should these things that exist can capture HDCPed HDMI in the first place?

In Germany the HDCP strippers are not allowed. Even Spatz relabelled Taiwanese things. In 2008 I witnessed at a HiFi Fair that the police came and confiscated all these strippers.

The reason is the same as for cinavia, see my post there. Nobody needs legally a HDCP-stripper and your own creations are neither cinavied nor HDCPed.
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Old 24th February 2011, 08:52   #20  |  Link
jalyst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
A few years ago there used to be HDMI splitters and such that removed HDCP readily available on eBay in some European countries (German firm Spaz Tech or whatever they were called used to manufacture a box that took a HDCP encrypted HDMI input and made it to HDCP-free DVI)
It sounds like those devices could only pass on HD video...
What did they do with high bandwidth audio formats often found in BD's & the occasional XB/PS3 game?

Quote:
If you know some people who are good at FPGA's, microelectronics and PCB design, it's pretty cheap and easy to build a HDCP remover yourself,
I didn't realise this would be so easy...

I know with the master key now leaked, it should be easy to implement a mechanism in fw, whereby it's impossible to revoke keys.
But I thought devising silicon which can handle the encryption & the handshake process, would be much, much, harder.

Can you recommend anyone I can approach about designing something like this?

Quote:
but if you don't have the right contacts and aren't good at soldering yourself there are several hacks for existing device drivers available.
That would be me
I don't suppose you could elaborate on these several hacks for existing device drivers?
And their limitations, if any...

Quote:
Edit: additionally, now that the PS3 has been jailbroken, it'll probably be possible to just disable HDCP on the PS3 side soon as well.
Good point...
I mainly want a capture device for grabbing HD audio in Xbox games.
But longer-term I wanna grab HD audio from Games & maybe BD's on the PS3 too.

BD's because my Essence isn't PAP compliant, so I can't play BD audio in Windows.
A way around that is to rip & convert the BD 1st, so I guess capturing BD audio from PS3 is less important.

Last edited by jalyst; 25th February 2011 at 18:56.
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