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Old 6th December 2010, 22:51   #61  |  Link
icester
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Originally Posted by KarstenS View Post
The SSIF and M2TS are not exactly the same.

The SSIF contains the whole data for both views. The M2TS is only linking to one view within the SSIF file.
From the documentation it looks like both files are broken into 1 or more seconds long blocks and joined sequentially like LRLRLRLRL etc. So there must be a header in SSIF file that specifies the length of the blocks and starting block order and more.
But those are only speculations and in order to create or recreate such SSIF file one would need to know the exact file format specification.

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Old 6th December 2010, 22:57   #62  |  Link
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There is an US Patent filed by some Japanese company on electronic circuit of a BD3D Player. Patent reviles some of the SSIF file structure but unfortunately it does not list the byte size of all fields.
May be I should dig more at uspto.gov and may be there is a patent for such SSIF file.


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Old 6th December 2010, 23:08   #63  |  Link
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Originally Posted by icester View Post
OK,
so the imgburn assumes ssif is defect free.
I was just hoping that someone knows how to create new ssif using the two base view and dependent view h.264 files.

Mathew Orman
That's something that has to be done at the time of the write... because you would have two file chains that are pointing to the same sectors. You can only do that if you are writing the disc output or are creating an ISO.
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Old 6th December 2010, 23:25   #64  |  Link
icester
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That's something that has to be done at the time of the write... because you would have two file chains that are pointing to the same sectors. You can only do that if you are writing the disc output or are creating an ISO.
So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

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Old 7th December 2010, 00:02   #65  |  Link
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Originally Posted by icester View Post
So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

Mathew Orman

I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


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Old 7th December 2010, 00:12   #66  |  Link
dirio49
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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC
I think the structure is created the same. Because if you think about it in the bd there are two files that are the same and same size. Just because they are linked in UDF.

As for the rip drive, i think it would be pointless.
So what you have two files that are the same.
when you burn or create the image the application with take care of the mirroring/linkage.
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Old 7th December 2010, 01:15   #67  |  Link
icester
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I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC
It seems that the BD driver is taking care of it or is it the ISO creator program?

If SSIF file has the same storage address as the m2ts then by erasing the mt2s files from stream directly should make the SSIF file pointing to NULL. But it is not becasue I have tested by erasing the m2ts files. The SSIF still plays the 2D file without audio if it is renamed to m2ts.

So how ImgBurn can creates correct SSIF file is a mystery.

Mathew Orman

Last edited by icester; 7th December 2010 at 01:18.
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Old 7th December 2010, 01:21   #68  |  Link
icester
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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does. It seems that the files on a UDF disk can have elements that point to the same actual physical sectors as others. When ripped, each file will replicate the full contents, and not simply appear as a link. Simple file copying is not good enough.

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS, then perhaps someone needs to write a driver that can create a virtual UDF drive contained within an NTFS or FAT file.

Then we can possibly rip to a virtual UDF drive which supports all the necessary linkages etc.

That may be total rubbish, of course.


--
SC
Yes such UDF drive is used in DEAMON Tools.

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Old 7th December 2010, 01:35   #69  |  Link
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So you say that SSIF file on hard drive which is NTFS is the same as when creating UDF image?

In any case the program that creates the ISO or a disk folder need to know how to create SSIF file.
imgburn only converts ready disk folder to ISO.

Mathew Orman
I don't think I've ever seen a SSIF on a hard drive -- so I couldn't say. But my guess would be that it is a copy of both components of the SSIF on the blu-ray -- which isn't the same thing... unless of course you have a blu-ray that is big enough... but if you check them out you'll see that they would be more than the 50GB max.
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Old 7th December 2010, 01:52   #70  |  Link
icester
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I don't think I've ever seen a SSIF on a hard drive -- so I couldn't say. But my guess would be that it is a copy of both components of the SSIF on the blu-ray -- which isn't the same thing... unless of course you have a blu-ray that is big enough... but if you check them out you'll see that they would be more than the 50GB max.
There is no restriction of minimum size on BD.
My examples are around 350 MB on 3DBD and 700 MB when stored on hard drive.
I can mount the ISO and play 3D movie using TotalMedia Theater 3D. I can burn the ISO into my BD-RE and play it using both PwerDVD 10 and TotalMedia Theater 3D.
Looks like ImgBurn ISO creator knows how to handle SSIF or else my 3DBD would not play.

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Old 7th December 2010, 02:01   #71  |  Link
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There is no restriction of minimum size on BD.
My examples are around 350 MB on 3DBD and 700 MB when stored on hard drive.
I can mount the ISO and play 3D movie using TotalMedia Theater 3D. I can burn the ISO into my BD-RE and play it using both PwerDVD 10 and TotalMedia Theater 3D.
Looks like ImgBurn ISO creator knows how to handle SSIF or else my 3DBD would not play.

Mathew Orman
Huh? Who ever said anything about a minimum size? What you have to worry about is the maximum. You won't find any commercial 3D titles that are 350MB and 700MB... it's nice to have examples -- but that doesn't solve anything.

I'm getting a sense that you don't understand the real issue here... the problem is that without the ability to link both M2TS files at a virtual level (multiple links to the same sectors), you would have to have two copies of at least one side of the stereo images. It's doable, but that means you'd take a big hit in quality reduction.
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Old 7th December 2010, 02:30   #72  |  Link
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Huh? Who ever said anything about a minimum size? What you have to worry about is the maximum. You won't find any commercial 3D titles that are 350MB and 700MB... it's nice to have examples -- but that doesn't solve anything.

I'm getting a sense that you don't understand the real issue here... the problem is that without the ability to link both M2TS files at a virtual level (multiple links to the same sectors), you would have to have two copies of at least one side of the stereo images. It's doable, but that means you'd take a big hit in quality reduction.
That is not a problem at all as we have terabyte drives now.
Ripping 3DBDs is already solved as we have programs that create full HD 3D side by side on a hard drive.

The problem is creating 3DBDs as the cheapest program cost around US$7000.

That is why it is so important to find out the original structure of the SSIF file.

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Old 7th December 2010, 06:01   #73  |  Link
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Okay... you missed the point again. Since you're obviously much smarter than I am, I'm out of this conversation. Good luck.
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Old 7th December 2010, 11:26   #74  |  Link
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Okay... you missed the point again. Since you're obviously much smarter than I am, I'm out of this conversation. Good luck.
Well,
if you are concerned about ripped output quality compared to the original on a 3DBD then you should not be as there is no loss at all.

If I am still missing the point then please give my some hints
as English is not my prime language.

I am an US citizen but born in Poland.


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Old 7th December 2010, 18:41   #75  |  Link
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as the right eye MVC m2ts is relatively small compared to the left eye avc m2ts it could be possible to just re-encode the the avc m2ts video, leaving the mvc alone. The only other obsticle would be creating a new Siff file. The shrek movies are about 35gb in size with about 12 audio tracks, removing the dead wood tracks and re-encoding the left eye avc stream should yeild good pq. on a bd-25.

anyone have any idea how to create the siff file? its file size matches the combined left/right eye streams but is bogus as its just mirroring the disc sectors occupied by the m2ts files.

dvdfab can creates a side by side encode which is a half decent fix until full hd 3d is possible with freeware
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Old 7th December 2010, 19:40   #76  |  Link
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I think the reason why we can't rip 3D BDs to HDD at a sensible size is that NTFS doesn't supports the same type of linking that UDF 2.5 does.

[...]

If the structure of UDF 2.5 can't be replicated under NTFS
NTFS is also supporting that type of linking. But no ripping tool make use of it. A simple filecopy with OS functions is much more easy than direct acessing the filesystem(s) and analyze the structure.

But an easy way to solve this problem is to ignore the m2ts file of the main movie completely.

As this linking list is only used for backward compatibility to non 3D BD players and this feature is optional, it would be easier to build 3D disks that contains the SSIF version only and put the 2D version away.
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Old 7th December 2010, 19:52   #77  |  Link
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NTFS is also supporting that type of linking. But no ripping tool make use of it. A simple filecopy with OS functions is much more easy than direct acessing the filesystem(s) and analyze the structure.
Unless you're planning to keep it on harddrive permanently, I don't think that really matters. What matters, I would think, is how it is written back out to BD. If I remember correctly, that was the point DeanK was making in post #54.
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Old 8th December 2010, 10:17   #78  |  Link
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No, he doesn't need the SSIF specs, because the SSIF is 1:1 to the corresponding M2TS file.


for example:

00001.m2ts
00002.m2ts --> 00002.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts
00012.m2ts --> 00012.ssif

He doesn't have to care about the contents of these files, but to make sure that both are described in the disc TOC as occupying the same physical sectors.

Dean
Err... actually I made a mistake with the example... Last time I looked at 3d structure was months ago...

Yes, the ssifs have the data mirrored from 2 m2ts files, not from 1 only.

00001.m2ts --> 00001.ssif
00002.m2ts --> 00001.ssif
00009.m2ts
00011.m2ts --> 00011.ssif
00012.m2ts --> 00011.ssif
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Old 10th January 2012, 21:18   #79  |  Link
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jdobbs, I'm with you!

The SSIF file can just describe the way to "Link" the original m2ts files - otherwise we would have m2ts left view + m2ts right view + ssif both view! if the SSIF was an own "multiview-file" then we would not need to have both of the m2ts files in addition to it...

the other - and i think BIGGER - problem will be to first find out which information is stored in the second (right) m2ts file... if i try to load it in any muxer i can't even have a look on it, because it doesn't open...
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Old 29th January 2012, 12:42   #80  |  Link
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Hi everybody,

I would like to help you for 3D blu-ray.
I read all subjet and i found your answer interesting.

Do you know a good iso reader ?
I would like to change m2ts file in iso with a smaller file. And then, compare the size of SSIF.
If you theroy of linking MT2S file is good. The SSIF file be smaller when I replace the M2TS.

What do you think about it ?
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