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Old 10th September 2010, 19:06   #2581  |  Link
tormento
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Which avisynth filters do you think is better to apply after a deinterlace=2 (bobbing) to convert from a 60i (60p by bobbing) to a 30p, retaining as much details as possible? Don't know how the Nvidia bobbing works when "espanding" temporal resolution.
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Old 10th September 2010, 19:10   #2582  |  Link
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Hmm, good question.

I don't think you can do much better than simply SelectEven() or SelectOdd(). You may want to check them to see which is better, because sometimes sources have artifacts limited to, or more prevalent in, one field.

But also, have a look at simply using deinterlace=1, i.e., not bobbing.

I'm always open to be corrected by Didée, of course.

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Old 10th September 2010, 20:21   #2583  |  Link
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I have read lot of docs about 60i interlacing and doing a deinterlace=1 is a no-way as you discard half frame of information. Unless NVIDIA provides a smarter way of deinterlacing. I suppose you should ask your "informer"
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Old 10th September 2010, 20:28   #2584  |  Link
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Bobbing followed by SelectEven() will also lose half the temporal resolution. I don't see anyway to avoid it.
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Old 10th September 2010, 23:37   #2585  |  Link
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Of course you cannot have 60Hz information in 30Hz progressive frames. Except for simple field blending, but nobody really wants that. (Hopefully.)

So far I've only had a brief look at Nvidia's deinterlacing. After checking with a few of my standard test samples, I quickly lost interest. Sure it is fast, but that's about it. Quality-wise, I can't see any particular magic in there; it's about in the same league as tdeint/yadif/etc. When you want blazing speed, then it's for you. When you aim for maximum detail/stability (and inherently, compressibility), then it's no replacement for TGMC. Which is still in a leage of it's own - regarding the result, as well as as the needed CPU-time.
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Old 10th September 2010, 23:43   #2586  |  Link
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then it's no replacement for TGMC. Which is still in a leage of it's own
Of course TGMC is the quality champ! Nobody's claiming PV as a replacement for TGMC. It's just a useful sweet spot for the quality/performance tradeoff, as you say.
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Old 11th September 2010, 00:30   #2587  |  Link
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But I had hoped that Nvidia would pull a little more out of the hat. It's not easy to get deeper information, however the video engine generally offers 3 ways of deinterlacing: "spatial", "temporal", and "vector adaptive". Spatial probably is a simple interpolator, temporal probably is interpolation with weaving acc. to some kind of usual motion-check. vector adaptive could be like temporal, by using source's motion vectors to judge if there "is" or "is not" motion. I'm pretty sure that no kind of active motion compensation is used: the results simply do not look like that.

Sample for demonstration is encoding right now. Check in a few minutes.
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Old 11th September 2010, 00:34   #2588  |  Link
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I thinks it's a relatively simple EDI, but I could be wrong. We can ask Nvidia about it, but it may not be something they want to discuss.
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Old 11th September 2010, 00:57   #2589  |  Link
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Quite possible. As long as the curtain isn't pulled, the illusion can persist there would be something special underneath. - Still, asking wouldn't hurt ... perhaps someone has a weak moment and actually leaks some insight.
Also, what I gathered from the internet: the video engine automatically uses the "highest" method, according to the capabilities of the card, as well as the actual content. Particular example: the GT220/240 is said to use "vector adaptive" deinterlacing only up to SD resolution, but for HD resolution it uses only "temporal" deinterlacing. Such behaviour is understandable, given that the usual application is realtime-playback. Though, for offline processing it could be interesting if it were possible to choose the deinterlacing method to liking. If you contact Nvidia again, maybe you could ask about that, too.

Okay, the comparison ...

Here's a quickly produced sample, from a realworld source: "Lord of the dance", native PAL DVD. To demonstrate clearly, the content was first bobbed, then upscaled 200% with pointresize, and slowed down from 50fps to 12.5 fps. Just to make it easy to see what's really going on.

<sample> (MediaFire, ~9 MB)

Three of them are more or less about the same. Hard to tell why one of the three should be preferable to the other two. They are exchangeable.

Hence ... if you're in a hurry, then it doesn't matter too much which one you pick. When calling for quality even if it takes longer, then there's not much of a choice.
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Old 11th September 2010, 02:09   #2590  |  Link
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My goodness, that is rather confronting as a demonstration. Is there a link to the latest TGMC which you use ?
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Old 11th September 2010, 06:37   #2591  |  Link
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Good news. I have found and fixed the dreaded "crash if you don't get a frame bug".

It was a race condition between CUDA init and the destruction of the filter instance. Putting a frame fetch in there gave CUDA long enough to finish initializing before the application deinstantiated the filter. I've mitigated that in DGDecodeNV.

Will test a bit more and then release. Hopefully it will make DGNV work with CCE, Procoder, etc.

Thanks to Groucho2004 for providing the simple test app I used to recreate the crash.
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Old 11th September 2010, 07:05   #2592  |  Link
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I have a quick noobish question: does TGMC == TempGaussMC?
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Old 11th September 2010, 08:05   #2593  |  Link
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Didée, Neuron2, please keep us informed about your VP deinterlacing. Are NVIDIA GPUs capable of some noise reduction too or other video manipulation in hardware? DGNV is such a useful program that some other features would be welcome
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Old 11th September 2010, 09:09   #2594  |  Link
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@ lych_necross: Yes. The exact source might be important, though...
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Old 11th September 2010, 09:12   #2595  |  Link
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Quote:
It was a race condition between CUDA init and the destruction of the filter instance. Putting a frame fetch in there gave CUDA long enough to finish initializing before the application deinstantiated the filter. I've mitigated that in DGDecodeNV.
That explains the arbitrary behavior it had.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...68#post1417168
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Old 11th September 2010, 14:14   #2596  |  Link
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Build 2026

* Fixed a race condition between CUDA init and filter deinstantiation that could cause
a crash when DGDecodeNV is instantiated and then deinstantiated without a call
to GetFrame(). Some third-party applications do that to get the video clip properties
returned by an Avisynth script.

http://neuron2.net/dgdecnv/dgdecnv.html
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Old 11th September 2010, 17:22   #2597  |  Link
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Are NVIDIA GPUs capable of some noise reduction too or other video manipulation in hardware? DGNV is such a useful program that some other features would be welcome
Sure they are capable of it but these things are not currently exposed in the CUVID API.

Since I now know how to write postprocessing functions that run on CUDA (I use it for the NV12->RGB conversion in DGIndexNV), I could contemplate writing some filters. At first, spatial only. Would you like to suggest any specific spatial denoising algorithm that I could implement?
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Old 11th September 2010, 17:43   #2598  |  Link
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Surely a "median" filter would be useful, and possibly rather simple to implement (hopefully).

a) "careful" method: capping a value to the range of the direct neighbors except self (not exactly the meaning of the term "median", but often used in filters with such a name)

b) "strict" method: setting a value to the middle value of the sorted list of self and neighbor values (the mathematical meaning of the term "median", but with stronger effect and "plateau" side effects)
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Old 11th September 2010, 17:52   #2599  |  Link
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Do you think a 3x3 kernel is sufficient?

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Old 11th September 2010, 18:06   #2600  |  Link
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Hmm ... well ... in general yes. But GPUs may have enough power to try a 5x5 kernel too. But they will have side effects, that can get quite heavy. I used Median with 5x5 kernel to simulate mesas in Terragen (the statistical filters in the "SOPack" are based on my suggestions to its author).
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