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Old 17th August 2009, 12:38   #181  |  Link
prokhozhijj
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neuron2,

Could you please to publish your todo list or roadmap? Is it possible that you'll decide soon to switch your soft to VP3 engine? If so, when it can happen? I think about upgrade my video card. And I do not want to buy old junk that you may reject to support in nearest future.
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Last edited by prokhozhijj; 17th August 2009 at 12:44.
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Old 17th August 2009, 13:34   #182  |  Link
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Nothing is planned yet, but the test GZZ suggests should be done.

I use the NVCUVID API; I don't explicitly code for any engine. I highly doubt that Nvidia would release anything not backward compatible to existing cards.
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Old 17th August 2009, 14:00   #183  |  Link
prokhozhijj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
I use the NVCUVID API; I don't explicitly code for any engine. I highly doubt that Nvidia would release anything not backward compatible to existing cards.
If so, how about my existing card with VP1-engine? Your site determine exactly that soft supports only VP2-engine. Isn't it? Didn't you told me about this a few messages before?

Sorry, neuron2, but I stopped to understand you at all.
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Last edited by prokhozhijj; 17th August 2009 at 14:44.
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Old 17th August 2009, 14:44   #184  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
If so, how about my existing card with VP1-engine? Your site determine exactly that your soft supports only VP2-engine. Isn't it? Didn't you told me about this a few messages before?

Sorry, neuron2, but I stopped to understand you at all.
It's very simple. I invoke the NVCUVID API. I have no code to test what engine is present. If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card. Nvidia tells me that VP2 or greater is required so that is what I say on my website.

Sell your card on ebay and get one with VP2 or greater.

Last edited by Guest; 17th August 2009 at 14:47.
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Old 17th August 2009, 14:55   #185  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
neuron2,

Could you please to publish your todo list or roadmap? Is it possible that you'll decide soon to switch your soft to VP3 engine? If so, when it can happen? I think about upgrade my video card. And I do not want to buy old junk that you may reject to support in nearest future.
For the record, my card is VP3 (8400 GS) and works just fine.
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Old 17th August 2009, 15:13   #186  |  Link
prokhozhijj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
It's very simple. I invoke the NVCUVID API. I have no code to test what engine is present. If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card. Nvidia tells me that VP2 or greater is required so that is what I say on my website.
Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine. It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards. So it may occure in future with VP2 cards and so on.

You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice?

Don't you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code?

In response to this question, please do not forget that the card can be used not only to decode the movie. There are different price categories for the cards from the same manufacturer (from $35 till $600).

BTW, top Nvidia cards does not use VP3 engine according to Wikipedia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
If things don't work on a given card it is because Nvidia does not support NVCUVID on that card.
This is not only reason. You forgot probably about bugs in your soft.

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it is using the same functionality of NVidia card (deinterlace) as your soft) works properly with my video card and your soft is not?
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Last edited by prokhozhijj; 17th August 2009 at 16:03.
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Old 17th August 2009, 15:26   #187  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine. It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards. So it may occured in future with VP2 cards and so on.

You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice?

Do you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code?

In response to this question, please do not forget that the card can be used not only to decode the movie. There are different price categories for the cards from the same manufacturer (from $35 till $600).
Neuron2 is using code supplied by Nvidia. Blaming him is like blaming Blizzard because Warcraft isn't working with your card because Nvidia's drivers are flawed. Neuron2 works on indexing the streams, while Nvidia ensures that the streams are decoded properly. Any VP3 code theoretically would be backward compatible with VP2. I know one thing for sure, my VP3 works with these programs so obviously nothing bad is going on.

Neuron2 has stated on his website that VP2 and above are supported. That's because Nvidia has guaranteed that VP2 and above will work. If that isn't the case, then he will refund your money.
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Last edited by Revgen; 17th August 2009 at 15:36.
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Old 17th August 2009, 15:39   #188  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
Ok. it may be time when you start to using code from VP3 engine.
This is the last time I am going to respond to this. I use only the NVCUVID API. I do not and will not code specifically for any particular engine.

Quote:
It allready happens when your code does not work on VP1 cards.
It has nothing to do with my coding.

Quote:
So it may occured in future with VP2 cards and so on.
See above.

Quote:
You are using some code and do not know exactly when it will stop to work properly on which cards. Is it a good practice?
Hey I also use the Windows API. Do you think MS will give me their source code so I can conduct a design review? And they'll let me review their future changes so I can guarantee that nothing gets broken?

Quote:
Don't you think that any of your user may change his card as frequently as you change the code?
As long as it is VP2 or greater it will be supported.
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Old 17th August 2009, 16:16   #189  |  Link
prokhozhijj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revgen
Blaming him is like blaming Blizzard because Warcraft isn't working with your card because Nvidia's drivers are flawed.
First of all. I do not want to blame somebody. Let's remember this. I am just asking questions. Secondly, Warcraft may not work properly because of bugs in NVidia drivers and because of own bugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
Hey I also use the Windows API. Do you think MS will give me their source code so I can conduct a design review? And they'll let me review their future changes so I can guarantee that nothing gets broken?
I told about minimal testing capabilities in your soft. I believe (but not sure) that it is possible to write such code. I know a lot of programs that do such testing about operating environment which they use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
As long as it is VP2 or greater it will be supported.
But you always have a choice: to use new features or not. I am speaking about this.

And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D?
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Last edited by prokhozhijj; 17th August 2009 at 16:25.
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Old 17th August 2009, 17:49   #190  |  Link
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When I encode my VC1's to AVC, I like to be able to use avisynth's ssim test to measure the encode to the original. Problem is that dgdecodenv doesn't allow multiple instances. From looking at your conversation with the Nvidia guy, it appears this is a limitation of CUDA. Is it possible to workaround this issue by implementing it into dgdecodenv somehow?
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Old 17th August 2009, 17:50   #191  |  Link
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Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D?
Yes, I think so. The API offers the old way and the new way. I chose the new way for performance reasons. I have no interest in supporting your card's VP1 engine and I'm not going to make an option to choose the method. If you don't like it, I'll refund your donation.

Last edited by Guest; 17th August 2009 at 17:53.
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Old 17th August 2009, 18:44   #192  |  Link
prokhozhijj
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
I chose the new way for performance reasons.
Ok. Did you test performance of old and new methods? If so, could you publish results or may be point to these results on NVidia site? This information is necessary to me to decide whether to upgrade my graphics card.
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Last edited by prokhozhijj; 17th August 2009 at 18:56.
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Old 17th August 2009, 19:09   #193  |  Link
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Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
Ok. Did you test performance of old and new methods? If so, could you publish results or may be point to these results on NVidia site? This information is necessary to me to decide whether to upgrade my graphics card.
I was told by Nvidia that the D3D-less operation performs better, especially on low end cards. I did not perform any tests.

But for you, clearly an upgrade to a VP2+ card is going to give you a bugger bump than going D3D-less.
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Old 18th August 2009, 08:41   #194  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prokhozhijj View Post
And may be you have any idea why Power DVD Player (it uses the same functionality as your soft (ie deinterlace)) work properly with my videocard and your soft do not? This is because D3D?
PowerDVD decodes and renders the image through the DXVA chain. The DXVA chain uses the EVR/VMR renderers which makes it possible to use deinterlacing on older VP1/UVD video cards. Some of the current decoder filters (FFDShow, CoreAVC, PowerDVD and others) can connect to EVR/VMR, flag the stream as interlaced, convert to a proper colorspace, and the video card handles the deinterlacing.

Since CUDA is a crossplatform API it doesn't have to be dependent on any Windows only APIs like DXVA. So nVidia made the NVCUVID API DXVA-less and D3D-less.

I hope this answers your question better.

LE: One more thing I forgot to write about. The VP1 doesn't have an Bitstream Processor, so that has to be done in software mode. This can be done using specific APIs (like DirectShow, GStreamer) or nVidia has to write its own software decoder. In the end nVidia chose to support only the hardware decoding capabilities of the VP2+ chips.
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Old 18th August 2009, 08:50   #195  |  Link
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Originally Posted by lucassp View Post

I hope this answers your question better.
Thank you very much for explanation.
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Old 18th August 2009, 15:04   #196  |  Link
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When I encode my VC1's to AVC, I like to be able to use avisynth's ssim test to measure the encode to the original. Problem is that dgdecodenv doesn't allow multiple instances. From looking at your conversation with the Nvidia guy, it appears this is a limitation of CUDA. Is it possible to workaround this issue by implementing it into dgdecodenv somehow?
Actually, I experimented with multiple instances early on and it appeared that it was the D3D framework that prevented it from working properly. Now that we have D3D-less operation, the possibility of multiple instance support arises again. I can't promise a time frame, but it's something I too am interested in.

Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not, due to an Nvidia bug that will be fixed in the next driver version. So we have to wait for that also.
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Old 18th August 2009, 18:39   #197  |  Link
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Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not.
Yea - just tried the indexer at the same time I was using the CUVIDServer for encoding and it sure did work. So getting multiple instance from the CUVIDServer shouldnt be impossible.

I'm looking forward to the new nvidia driver and beta 8. Great Work.
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Old 18th August 2009, 21:21   #198  |  Link
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
Actually, I experimented with multiple instances early on and it appeared that it was the D3D framework that prevented it from working properly. Now that we have D3D-less operation, the possibility of multiple instance support arises again. I can't promise a time frame, but it's something I too am interested in.

Actually, in NV beta 7, the indexers are D3D-less but the server is not, due to an Nvidia bug that will be fixed in the next driver version. So we have to wait for that also.
Nvidia seems to release a WHQL driver every month or so. The last one they released was on July 21st. Hopefully the next one is around the corner.
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Old 18th August 2009, 22:10   #199  |  Link
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They told me end of August.
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Old 19th August 2009, 15:53   #200  |  Link
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If any of these (all nitpicks) have been mentioned already, I apologize, but here goes:

1. In NVbeta7's DGAVCIndexNV's About box, it sez 1.0.14 beta 6. Maybe correct/intentional tho I notice while the other MPG/VC1 tools have different numbers, they show beta 7.

2. In testing/trying older versions to nail-down a problem, I did along the way rename my folders to "/DGbetax". Later I noticed I could not open my .avs w/Vdub anymore:

Avisynth open failure
DGSource: Invalid license

After hand-wringing re: MachineID and License and MAC address et.al., I realized the problem was that I'd renamed my DGTools directory, because within the .dga I'd created it still expected /DGTools. So the problem wasn't an "Invalid license" at all but rather failure to find /DGTools. Not sure if this is fixable, or worth fixing at all (pilot error)...

3. When I run CUVIDServer and do an x264 encoding, when that encoding is done I index my newly-created .264 file, and then try to open w/Avisynth-Vdub and I get an error from the still-running-from-the-encode-process CUVIDServer (sorry I didn't note the error). Usually (always?) results in CTL-ALT-DEL to force End Process of CUVIDServer, but then I run it again and my avs/vdub works.

FYI
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