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Old 9th June 2009, 07:58   #981  |  Link
kotyczka
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What an interesting discussion!

There is a really strange effect which I do not understand.
I'm using DVDSubEdit 1.501, the latest official release.

I open some .sup file, no corresponding .ifo. Next I choose
"16:9 Widescreen" in the combobox. Now the first subpic is
shown in widescreen mode.
I edit the subpic (Ctrl-Shift-E), but in the external graphic
editor I do _nothing_, just close it. Now the "modified"
bitmap is reimported, the subtitle is marked as "modified".
However the subpic _seems_ to have moved some few pixels.
I can see this when I reload the original SPU from file
(Ctrl-Z). When typing Ctrl-Z the subpic moves sligtly a few
pixels.
I get the same strange effect if I choose "4:3" instead of
"16:9 Widescreen" in the beginning. However, if I do not choose
any screen mode after loading the .sup file - i.e. the combobox
is empty, then I do not see any difference between the modified
and the original subpic.
So I guess, that the content of the subpic has not moved, it must
be some kind of "display problem". But it is annoying anyway.

What might be the reason? I guess stepping though the source code
will not help _me_ fnding the reason.

To make the problem reproducible, I uploaded a small (57k) .sup file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7...4e75f6e8ebb871

Last edited by kotyczka; 9th June 2009 at 08:15.
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Old 9th June 2009, 08:15   #982  |  Link
kotyczka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
Not at this point. The program only retimes VOB files. Retiming .sup files should be a lot easier, but what would you use that for?
Jeanl
Retiming a single .sup file would be a great feature.
It is one of the few things I'm missing in DVDSubEdit.
And I guess it should be much easier to implement
than retiming a .vob.
What so I need it for? Sometimes I wish to add a new
subtitle stream in another language. So I demux the
original .vob's, duplicate one .sup file, change the
text subpic by subpic and remux the whole thing in the
end. I open the audio files in some audio editor and
see very exactly, how much the subpics should be retimed.
It would be really helpful to do the retiming in the .sup
file before remuxing.
And if the translated text is larger than the original,
I have to worry that the compressed modified subpic is
too large to fit into the .vob. That should not be the
case for .sup.
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Old 9th June 2009, 16:38   #983  |  Link
jeanl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyczka View Post
What an interesting discussion!

There is a really strange effect which I do not understand.
I'm using DVDSubEdit 1.501, the latest official release.

I open some .sup file, no corresponding .ifo. Next I choose
"16:9 Widescreen" in the combobox. Now the first subpic is
shown in widescreen mode.
I edit the subpic (Ctrl-Shift-E), but in the external graphic
editor I do _nothing_, just close it. Now the "modified"
bitmap is reimported, the subtitle is marked as "modified".
However the subpic _seems_ to have moved some few pixels.
I can see this when I reload the original SPU from file
(Ctrl-Z). When typing Ctrl-Z the subpic moves sligtly a few
pixels.
I get the same strange effect if I choose "4:3" instead of
"16:9 Widescreen" in the beginning. However, if I do not choose
any screen mode after loading the .sup file - i.e. the combobox
is empty, then I do not see any difference between the modified
and the original subpic.
So I guess, that the content of the subpic has not moved, it must
be some kind of "display problem". But it is annoying anyway.

What might be the reason? I guess stepping though the source code
will not help _me_ fnding the reason.

To make the problem reproducible, I uploaded a small (57k) .sup file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7...4e75f6e8ebb871
I have a suspicion that this isn't caused by the outside editing, but by the cropping that takes place before the bitmap is exported. Can you check whether this happens when you do "crop" (instead of shift-ctrl-E)?
Jeanl
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Old 9th June 2009, 16:39   #984  |  Link
jeanl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyczka View Post
Retiming a single .sup file would be a great feature.
It is one of the few things I'm missing in DVDSubEdit.
And I guess it should be much easier to implement
than retiming a .vob.
What so I need it for? Sometimes I wish to add a new
subtitle stream in another language. So I demux the
original .vob's, duplicate one .sup file, change the
text subpic by subpic and remux the whole thing in the
end. I open the audio files in some audio editor and
see very exactly, how much the subpics should be retimed.
It would be really helpful to do the retiming in the .sup
file before remuxing.
And if the translated text is larger than the original,
I have to worry that the compressed modified subpic is
too large to fit into the .vob. That should not be the
case for .sup.
I see, but aren't there tools out there that allow you to do that easily? I'll look into adding that to DVDSE...
Jeanl
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Old 10th June 2009, 06:30   #985  |  Link
jeanl
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Here's version 1.5023
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSub...Edit1.5023.zip

I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
Jeanl
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Old 11th June 2009, 10:20   #986  |  Link
kotyczka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
Here's version 1.5023
I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
Jeanl
Thank you very much, it works like a charme!

One very minor note. When opening a .sup file
the playback buttons at the very bottom should
be disabled. It makes no sense to press them.
I already had the case that I startet playback
when only a .sup file was opened:

First I opened a full domain, then I opened the .sup.
Next I wanted to press the "next subpic" button,
which already had the focus. I didn't use the mouse
for pressing the button, but wanted to use the
"Space" key. I did not remember that you catch
that key event to start playback. So the playback
did start, but since there was nothing to play the
button just was flickering. No way to stop that.
So maybe it just should be disabled if a .sup file is
loaded.
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Old 11th June 2009, 10:36   #987  |  Link
kotyczka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
I have a suspicion that this isn't caused by the outside editing, but by the cropping that takes place before the bitmap is exported. Can you check whether this happens when you do "crop" (instead of shift-ctrl-E)?
Jeanl
It seems you are perfectly right with this assumtion.
If I press the "Crop subpic background" button, I do see
the text moving some pixels too. And it happens only
if I choose 16:9 or 4:3. If the combobox keeps empty
I do not see the subpic moving while cropping.
However I still have no idea if that effect changes the
final subpic stream.
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:48   #988  |  Link
jeanl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyczka View Post
Thank you very much, it works like a charme!

One very minor note. When opening a .sup file
the playback buttons at the very bottom should
be disabled. It makes no sense to press them.
I already had the case that I startet playback
when only a .sup file was opened:

First I opened a full domain, then I opened the .sup.
Next I wanted to press the "next subpic" button,
which already had the focus. I didn't use the mouse
for pressing the button, but wanted to use the
"Space" key. I did not remember that you catch
that key event to start playback. So the playback
did start, but since there was nothing to play the
button just was flickering. No way to stop that.
So maybe it just should be disabled if a .sup file is
loaded.
Yes, of course, that's an oversight. I'll fix that. Thanks.
Jeanl
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:52   #989  |  Link
jeanl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kotyczka View Post
It seems you are perfectly right with this assumtion.
If I press the "Crop subpic background" button, I do see
the text moving some pixels too. And it happens only
if I choose 16:9 or 4:3. If the combobox keeps empty
I do not see the subpic moving while cropping.
However I still have no idea if that effect changes the
final subpic stream.
It shouldn't affect the final stream but I can't say that I've done extensive testing to prove that the subpic is absolutely in the same position whether it's cropped or not. However, I'm 99% sure that it is.
The reason why it appears to move is because of the display in DVDSubEdit: because in general the subpic isn't displayed as 1 pixel for 1 pixel (i.e., there's some reduction in size going on to fit the screen), there has to be some approximation. The approximation is never worse than 1/2 pixel, and can change depending on the display mode (4:3, 16:9 etc) and also depending on the size of the app. If you maximize the app to make the display area as large as possible, you might find that the subpic does not move at all when you crop. In any case, I don't think that's anything to worry about.
jeanl
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Old 16th June 2009, 02:38   #990  |  Link
oso2k6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
Here's version 1.5023
http://download.videohelp.com/DVDSub...Edit1.5023.zip

I've fixed the read-only attribute on sup files. I've added re-timing of sup files. Give that a shot, and let me know.
Jeanl
Hi, i asked for this option some posts before, and first of all thank you for implementing it, i tested it applying big delays of 15 seconds, then when remuxing, all was in perfect sync, so again, thank you very much. If i find any problems i'll post them here. Bye.
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Old 19th June 2009, 16:17   #991  |  Link
alfixdvd
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With ripped movies that have the protection ARCOSS of SONY, and they have a first a cell of few frames, ie: 00:00:00.12, DvdSubedit shows incorrectly the time of all the subtitles, they are delayed forward.

Nevertheless extracted with PgcDemux they are correct.

Last movie with this behavior is Rachel Getting Married.

What's wrong!
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Old 19th June 2009, 16:42   #992  |  Link
r0lZ
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The protected cells are wrong, not DVDSubEdit!

You can try to remove them with PgcEdit before using DVDSE, but be sure to keep a backup of your ripped files, as removing the cells may be very difficult. Verify also if the main movie plays fine.
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Old 20th June 2009, 07:34   #993  |  Link
alfixdvd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
The protected cells are wrong, not DVDSubEdit!

You can try to remove them with PgcEdit before using DVDSE, but be sure to keep a backup of your ripped files, as removing the cells may be very difficult. Verify also if the main movie plays fine.
Yes I know, I can remove this first cell with PgcEdit, Dvd2one, DvdShrink, etc. But PgcDemux in spite of the wrong first cell, it extracts the subtitles with correct timming, I do not need to do an additional previous step with PgEdit or similar.

Why DvdSubedit does not do the same ?

Last edited by alfixdvd; 20th June 2009 at 07:41.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 05:18   #994  |  Link
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When you say that DVDSubEdit shows the wrong timing, what timing are you referring to? Is it the "Timecode" in the subpic info, or is it the PTS?
Could you post a detailed example showing the PTS and the timecode in DVDSE and the pts shown by pgcdemux?
Jeanl
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Old 26th June 2009, 18:49   #995  |  Link
alfixdvd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
When you say that DVDSubEdit shows the wrong timing, what timing are you referring to? Is it the "Timecode" in the subpic info, or is it the PTS?
Could you post a detailed example showing the PTS and the timecode in DVDSE and the pts shown by pgcdemux?
Jeanl
The movie is Rachel Getting Married.

It has a first cell of duration 00:00:00.12.

Subtitles extracted with Pgdemux show:

First subtitle in stream PTS = 9579600 TimeCode: 00:01:46,439
First forced subtitle in stream PTS = 115729200 TimeCode: 00:21:25,880

Subtitles extracted with DvdSubedit (File -> Open Full domain) show:

First subtitle in stream PTS = 19958400 TimeCode: 00:03:41,759
First forced subtitle in stream PTS = 126108000 TimeCode: 00:23:21,200.

PTS's and Timecode are different.

Values from PgDemux are synchronized with the image, values from DvdSubedit are moved forward.
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Old 26th June 2009, 21:10   #996  |  Link
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Hi,
I recently moved to apple computer and tried to use DVDstudio PRO which is a MAC software. Unfortunately this programme's text 'back bar or background' covers the whole screen and it cannot be resized! I need the 'back bar' or the grey text box as most of the video clip that I subtitle have light background.
I then tried to use dvdsubedit's 'crop' feature on one of the subtitles and I could see the dramatic effect. The back bar was trimmed to the size of text immediately. I applied the modification to all subtitles which also worked very well. I saved and exited with joy.
But when I played the edited dvd folder - nothing has changed. The whole screen still darkening everytime a subtitle shows up!
Tried it again and again - no success. I don't know if it is only a problem with saving or the backbar itself cannot be resized.
I didn't have such problems with the windows based computers.
I will really appreciate your help re this matter.
Please note that I am running dvdsubedit using "virtual win XP" from within the MAC platform.
Cheers,
Fulham

[QUOTE=jeanl]This is surprising. If you cropped, applied to all, and saved, and everything went OK, then this really shouldn't happen. When you reload the modified DVD into DVDSE, does the background take the whole picture, or does it appear cropped, as when you saved it.
I can only see the following explanations:
- You applied to a particular stream of subs which is different than the one you selected in the player? Try applying to all stream simultaneously, then saving.
- On some of the subs (maybe many), the cropping fails to properly see the bounding box of the text (could be because of a spurious pixel here or there in the sub), and you didn't see that when you applied to all. Try pinpointing a sub that shows the problem, then open the DVD with DVDSE, go to that sub (make sure it's the same stream), and look at the background to see whether it was properly cropped.

Another way to solve your problem is to make the background transparent (which it obviously isn't currently). DVDSE can easily do that for you, all you have to do is select the background pixel, and move the transparency slider to full transparent, apply to all, and save... This should do it.

Jeanl

Hi Jeanl,
Thanks for the response.
1. I need the back bar as my video clip has very light background. One can't read most of the the subtitles without it.
2. There is only one subtitle stream and I applied the crop 'to all' and then saved it before exiting DVDSE. Before I closed it, I did browse the changes at random (as I have about 600 subtitles, I didn't go through all of them) and they all looked cropped properly.
3. When I reload the modified DVD into DVDSE, the cropping is all gone! In other words, nothing seems to have been saved!
This is all reproducible everytime.
I am really stuck now.
Please let me know what should I do next.
Thanks,
Fulham

Last edited by fulham; 30th June 2009 at 17:35.
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Old 30th June 2009, 20:52   #997  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanl View Post
Wait a minute, this is already implemented! If you change the colors of the pixels in a subpic (by clicking the colors in the clut display - NOT by shift-clicking which changes the color of the CLUT itself), you can apply the same modification to any other subpic by pressing Ctrl-V (shortcut for paste).
Isn't that what you want?
Jeanl
Thanks for alerting me to that feature!
However, most of the time I'm not using the CLUT colors since I'm using a color that is the closest to the signs I'm subbing. That what I'm using this feature for most of the time.

Is it possible to implement this ctrl+v option with the shift+click colors as well?

Oh, and is it possible to "teach" the OCR not to substitute l with I and mark italics so that they come out right in the srt?

Thanks.

ericf
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Old 1st July 2009, 02:01   #998  |  Link
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The colors you change with the shift key are the colors in the IFOs. They are not dependent of the current subpic, but are global to the whole PGC. It doesn't make sense to save the same CLUT several times.

However, in some rare cases, the same VOB cells are reused in several PGCs, and they may have different CLUTs. I'm not sure DVDSubEdit saves the colors modified with shift in all PGCs referencing the VOB cells, or only in the first PGC it finds. Anyway, you can modify or copy/paste the CLUTs of the PGCs with PgcEdit.
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Old 1st July 2009, 22:52   #999  |  Link
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Thanks. I'll see if I can try that. Never done it before.
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Old 2nd July 2009, 22:42   #1000  |  Link
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Yes, I couldn't have said it better than r0lZ! in 99% of cases, you'll just need to create the color you want once, then use it for every subpic, in which case, Ctrl-V (or apply to all) will answer your needs.
Jeanl
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