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Old 13th May 2009, 17:44   #221  |  Link
ChronoCross
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Instead of making silly and wrong guesses maybe you should stfu until you have got something sane to say.
yeah because lord knows deleting dll's is a smart thing to do. Guess that's why computer repair companies are still in business.

Sorry that you seem so insulted you found it necessary to blurt out "STFU" just because I don't agree with your whiny argument on how ffdshow is so awesome and media foundation and WMP are screwing it over. Next time I'll remember to just fall in line with random microsoft outrage.
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Old 13th May 2009, 18:41   #222  |  Link
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Microsoft doesn't have some sort of official contact other than a mailing list? Seems kind of unprofessional.
We have a whole lot of mechanisms we work with ecosystem partners on.

Anyone actually working on software produdcts this impacts and who don't have any direct contacts with Microsoft, feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can track down an appropriate contact for whatever issue you've got.
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Old 13th May 2009, 21:01   #223  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ChronoCross View Post
yeah because lord knows deleting dll's is a smart thing to do. Guess that's why computer repair companies are still in business.

Sorry that you seem so insulted you found it necessary to blurt out "STFU" just because I don't agree with your whiny argument on how ffdshow is so awesome and media foundation and WMP are screwing it over. Next time I'll remember to just fall in line with random microsoft outrage.
I'm not that stupid; I'll research the correct filename, delete the codec only, and than run a registry cleanup removing unlinked/unreferenced codecs. Works fine on XP also, when used as a last resort. Never had a blue screen since i stopped using Win 98SE, and my current system has an install-time of several years now. So please do not patronize me ...

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Old 13th May 2009, 22:04   #224  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ChronoCross View Post
yeah because lord knows deleting dll's is a smart thing to do. Guess that's why computer repair companies are still in business.

Sorry that you seem so insulted you found it necessary to blurt out "STFU" just because I don't agree with your whiny argument on how ffdshow is so awesome and media foundation and WMP are screwing it over. Next time I'll remember to just fall in line with random microsoft outrage.
You need to get your facts straight. I never ever said anything in this topic about ffdshow being awesome. I never said that randomly deleting dlls is a good idea. I only said that your BSOD remark is total nonsense. So STFU indeed.
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Old 13th May 2009, 22:52   #225  |  Link
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Originally Posted by G_M_C View Post
I'm not that stupid; I'll research the correct filename, delete the codec only, and than run a registry cleanup removing unlinked/unreferenced codecs. Works fine on XP also, when used as a last resort. Never had a blue screen since i stopped using Win 98SE, and my current system has an install-time of several years now. So please do not patronize me ...
I'll patronize you because your talking about doing something on an OS you have never used nor do you even know the full extent of the possible damage that it could do. Your pretty much saying that hey since it worked before I might as well do it now. That's a piss poor way of administering a system.


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You need to get your facts straight. I never ever said anything in this topic about ffdshow being awesome. I never said that randomly deleting dlls is a good idea. I only said that your BSOD remark is total nonsense. So STFU indeed.
the ffdshow is the only free 3rd party codec really being discussed so I used it as a generalization for your argument. I'll use "third party codec x" from now on.

Also how is a BSOD nonsense. it is a perfect possibility if someone goes dicking around with system files. Who knows at this point what consequences could follow, hell even if it results in WMP crashing it's still an unintended result. So please don't tell me to STFU based on your thought that a BSOD might be absolutely absurd when it is still a possibility.
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Old 14th May 2009, 01:29   #226  |  Link
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How ironic/funny I got a BSOD when messing with the registry for WMP/DS on Win7 today. Yes, I did submit a crash report on it ;-)
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Old 14th May 2009, 07:34   #227  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ChronoCross View Post
I'll patronize you because your talking about doing something on an OS you have never used nor do you even know the full extent of the possible damage that it could do. Your pretty much saying that hey since it worked before I might as well do it now. That's a piss poor way of administering a system.
[...]
even if it results in WMP crashing it's still an unintended result.[...]
That would not be a problem. I'm in the EU, and EU versions are forced to have WMP as an option.

Deleting + cleaning from registry is actually more,- or less the same thing as an uninstall-programm would do; Only you do it "by hand". But originally it was a question if this was even possible, not a question about the possible things that you think might happen as a consequence.

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Old 14th May 2009, 16:00   #228  |  Link
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That would not be a problem. I'm in the EU, and EU versions are forced to have WMP as an option.
Glad I don't live in the EU. Eventually the only windows your going to have is Windows 7 command line edition because someone in the EU is going to complain that Microsoft is using their monopoly to force you to use their GUI.

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Deleting + cleaning from registry is actually more,- or less the same thing as an uninstall-programm would do; Only you do it "by hand". But originally it was a question if this was even possible, not a question about the possible things that you think might happen as a consequence.
Sure you can remove the dll's. You can technically delete the entire Windows directory. But then again if you think about the potential problems that it might cause, might make you think twice. You should always think about the consequences of every action. Just asking if something is possible would be rather flawed.
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Old 14th May 2009, 17:24   #229  |  Link
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Glad I don't live in the EU. Eventually the only windows your going to have is Windows 7 command line edition because someone in the EU is going to complain that Microsoft is using their monopoly to force you to use their GUI.
[...]
No, dont think so.Think we get a possibillity on an "advanced option" during install, where you can select the options you need/like. If you dont plan on using IE, but FF; Dont install IE. Likewise you can de-select WMP when you plan on using MPC-HT and so forth.

You get less clutter on you HDD's, and more choice. Dont mind both at all.

Might be useful for sysops too; Why install AVC codecs if your employees are supposed to use your own proprietary system for writing letters ? Helps you in making shure they do their task in stead of watching youtube (other than firewall measures). In other words, you get a more versatile system, with more control over the features you need/want/use; More tailored to your situation.

I'm all for this.

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Old 15th May 2009, 12:52   #230  |  Link
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And the game is up.

Sorry, Microsoft, your decoder sucks.

You can no longer claim that it benefits us to use your decoder because it is "better" when it cannot play 1080p H.264 on a Quad-core Phenom II Black Edition 3.2Ghz.

And now your decoder is (blatantly illegally) hijacking playback throughout Windows 7. I suspect the rest of the world will have no choice but to actively break your decoders in order to provide useful media playback.

How am I not surprised?
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Old 15th May 2009, 22:25   #231  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Eragon4ever View Post
Add an option "Thanks, I'm an advanced user and know what I'm doing. Now unlock this player and use the decoders I want to use."
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
That's a reasonable general approach. The trick would be to make sure it's something the user could opt into but that could be something any authenticated app could silently set.
Here's an idea.

During playback, if a DirectShow decoder is registered for the same mediatype a MediaFoundation decoder is supposed to handle, pop-up a confirmation dialog upon loading the video: "WMP has detected you have untested third-party decoders installed for this media type. Do you wish to use the default WMP decoders instead? Yes(default)/No"

The dialog would only appear for users that have dared to install third-party decoders. A tiny minority, if Microsoft really does deliver with a reliable and comprehensive set of MediaFoundation decoders. I believe most users will attempt to install codecs only when playback goes wrong.

Don't be greedy, Microsoft: you can make your decoders the best they can be AND allow third-parties to play in the game when your stuff doesn't work.
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Old 16th May 2009, 00:15   #232  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
And the game is up.

Sorry, Microsoft, your decoder sucks.

You can no longer claim that it benefits us to use your decoder because it is "better" when it cannot play 1080p H.264 on a Quad-core Phenom II Black Edition 3.2Ghz.

And now your decoder is (blatantly illegally) hijacking playback throughout Windows 7. I suspect the rest of the world will have no choice but to actively break your decoders in order to provide useful media playback.

How am I not surprised?
I'd be more impressed with that thread if he wasn't using illegally downloaded material as reference for "jerky playback".
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Old 16th May 2009, 00:48   #233  |  Link
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The decoder also seems to force the use of hardware acceleration for H.264 videos with more reference frames than L4.1 allows. ATI card, of course.


Last edited by Snowknight26; 16th May 2009 at 00:51.
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Old 16th May 2009, 00:59   #234  |  Link
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The decoder also seems to force the use of hardware acceleration for H.264 videos with more reference frames than L4.1 allows. ATI card, of course.

Like Microsoft's MPEG-2 decoder. I smell a huge failure here.
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That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
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Old 16th May 2009, 03:59   #235  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
And the game is up.

Sorry, Microsoft, your decoder sucks.

You can no longer claim that it benefits us to use your decoder because it is "better" when it cannot play 1080p H.264 on a Quad-core Phenom II Black Edition 3.2Ghz.

And now your decoder is (blatantly illegally) hijacking playback throughout Windows 7. I suspect the rest of the world will have no choice but to actively break your decoders in order to provide useful media playback.

How am I not surprised?
With my Phenom 9500, I can play 1080p videos just fine with Microsoft H.264 decoder. The link above is just an anecdotal evidence and not a rule.
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Old 18th May 2009, 01:40   #236  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
And the game is up.

Sorry, Microsoft, your decoder sucks.
How am I not surprised?
If I'm parsing that thread correctly, he's reproducing this problem with ffdshow as well, no?

I think whatever's happening there is a different issue.

Looks like they also figured out a way to make ffdshow work on Win7 with MPC-HD anyway. Nice to see a 3rd party app demonstrating that works.
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Old 22nd May 2009, 09:56   #237  |  Link
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Found universal solution to disable forced Microsoft H264 codec in WMP12 and WMC.

First, and this is main step, backup and delete key HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\MediaFoundation\Transforms\{62ce7e72-4c71-4d20-b15d-452831a87d9d}
Second, change key value HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectShow\Preferred\{31435641-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71} from {212690FB-83E5-4526-8FD7-74478B7939CD} to preferred h264 decoder ({09571A4B-F1FE-4C60-9760-DE6D310C7C31} for CoreAVC or {04FE9017-F873-410E-871E-AB91661A4EF7} for ffdshow)

If you need to allow any other decoders in WMP12/WMC, like ffdshow Audio decoder and AC3Filter, add decoders CLSID to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\MediaPlayer\FilterExceptions (create new keys with decoder CLSID name) and add key 'Capabilities' to needed CLSID`s in HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{083863F1-70DE-11D0-BD40-00A0C911CE86}\Instance This 'Capabilities' key must contain REG_DWORD value with name: {374ac4df-7c98-4257-b13d-36087dbee458} and value: 1
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Old 22nd May 2009, 22:34   #238  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
If I'm parsing that thread correctly, he's reproducing this problem with ffdshow as well, no?

I think whatever's happening there is a different issue.

Looks like they also figured out a way to make ffdshow work on Win7 with MPC-HD anyway. Nice to see a 3rd party app demonstrating that works.
What now? Hold on, I thought the justification was that MS doesn't want to support arbitrary number of decoders/etc in their players. Is MPC-HD an MS player? I don't think so (could be wrong, I don't know who develops it). Why was any amount of effort required to get it to work at all?

If something had to be done to make MPC-HD work with FFDShow under Win7RC, that seem to dismiss the claim that the change is just to protect MS players from non-MS decoders.
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Old 23rd May 2009, 03:00   #239  |  Link
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What now? Hold on, I thought the justification was that MS doesn't want to support arbitrary number of decoders/etc in their players. Is MPC-HD an MS player? I don't think so (could be wrong, I don't know who develops it). Why was any amount of effort required to get it to work at all?

If something had to be done to make MPC-HD work with FFDShow under Win7RC, that seem to dismiss the claim that the change is just to protect MS players from non-MS decoders.
MPC-HC has their own graph builder, and there are no problem whatsoever using ffdshow with it (works just like it is in Vista or XP).
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Old 23rd May 2009, 03:56   #240  |  Link
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MPC-HC has their own graph builder, and there are no problem whatsoever using ffdshow with it (works just like it is in Vista or XP).
That is demonstrably false:

First, benwaggoner said that MPC had to be fixed.

Second, I stay with the beta precisely because my friend jumped the gun and went to RC and now MPC+ffdshow is broken. We did get it to connect, but there is no picture only sound (and even that ~30sec delayed). Same exact combo (a series of latest svn builds for both) works out of the box in beta and older windows.
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