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27th March 2009, 14:15 | #141 | Link |
Author of BDSup2Sub
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Well, your use of "correct" is debatable. IMHO BDSup2Sub handles colors correctly since 2.5. I find it hard to believe that Sony, core member of the BD Association, screwed this in the PS3, which probably still is one of the most popular BD players.
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27th March 2009, 14:28 | #142 | Link |
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Correct meaning the swap setting came very close to replicating the original sup I uploaded which is tough to debate. I have a feeling you'll experience the same thing in PS3 with that sup. I actually prefer the yellow vobsubs over the turquoise but the 2.5 sups were very difficult to read.
I don't know about Iron Man sup, I don't have that one and I believe your claims about it. Probably just a case where some need the swap while others don't, luckily we have control of that now. |
27th March 2009, 17:16 | #143 | Link | |||
Author of BDSup2Sub
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Posts: 478
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Which however raises the questions if you're actually using the SUPs created by BDSup2Sub to mux a transport stream. If so: does this work reliably? Quote:
I don't think so. I guess that other people stumbled over the same assumption as I did: if the color space is commonly called "YCbCr", it seems likely that the color components are also stored in that order. As SupRip shows the "Iron Man" caption in wrong colors, it's pretty clear to me that it uses the wrong Cr/Cb order just like BDSup2Sub did until (including) 2.4. |
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27th March 2009, 17:43 | #144 | Link |
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You could if you wanted to test out that sup stream on a PS3 and compare color palettes of the original to swap vs unswapped setting in BDSup2Sub. As I understand it the color palette is contained inside the sup and I don't see why a PS3 would interpret it differently then these other tools/players do.
I've only watched a few 720p movies with sup's converted with BDSup2Sub and they seem to be reliable since I think it was 2.1 when they started showing, except for this one colored forced sup stream. I'll let you know if I do find some thing else though. |
27th March 2009, 20:20 | #145 | Link | |
Author of BDSup2Sub
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 478
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Besides, at least one of the tools you named, Vobsub Resync, doesn't even support BD-SUPs. I must admit that I'm surprised to hear that MPC-HC does. At least with the M2TS streams I tried, it certainly didn't. So, this obviously leaves us in a PowerDVD vs. PS3 situation (if at all), where I would bet on the hardware player produced by the BDA foundation member for sure. Anyway: anybody with a standalone is invited to report if colored captions demuxed from a BD/HD-DVD appear correct (neglecting calibration/gamma correction) in BDSup2Sub compared to what the standalone displays with the original BD/HD-DVD. If not, post the SUP and some details (which captions should look how, which demuxer used, did the "swap cr/cb" option fix it etc). |
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28th March 2009, 15:41 | #147 | Link |
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Hi,
First I'd like to thank you for making this tool I have one request/idea.. would it be possible to add as an option to relocate subs automatically inside the picture, simply something like keep subs inside set bounds? I'm planning to get myself 2.35:1 screen and having subs outside the screen isn't really an option I though about making such tool myself but then I saw your tool and though it could be easy to add such feature to already existing software, I'm sure there would be loads of people who'd have use for such feature anyway. I know I can do this with srt subs but I really do prefer bitmap subs as there are several cons on srt. I've put a quick sketch as an attachment to show what I'm after. Basically you'd enter Min and Max Y and treshold, these values would set the final bounds, no subs would be left outside these values. Then all subs would be scanned and determined the ones that need repositioning. Software would mark subs that has to be lowered and subs to be risen and also save highest and lowest Y found on sub frames. Treshold would describe how much subtitle can get below min Y or above max Y to be marked for repositioning while min and max Y would tell where the new lowest or highest subtitle would be repositioned. Then after all subs were scanned repositioning would take place by following logic: rise ALL subs that were below (Max Y-Treshold) by (biggest Y found on subframes-Max Y entered). Same logic on too high positioned subtitles. So it would process only the frames that need repositioning. Treshold would keep frames away from bouncing all over the screen too. If both Min Y and Max Y would be true over the same frame, then tell user about it and leave frame as it is (let user deal with that particular frame by himself manually). |
29th March 2009, 07:27 | #148 | Link |
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Found an oddity with the swap cr/cb.
With the same colored sups I've been dealing with if I disable swap the text in the gui appears yellow but it outputs blue subtitles. If I enable swap the gui shows blue but it outputs yellow subtitles. Also the color of the sup in MPC-HC, PowerDVD, SupRip, SupRead matches the color of what is shown on a Panasonic BD30. I'll try testing on a PS3 soon. |
29th March 2009, 11:45 | #149 | Link |
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automatic language detection from the command prompt ?
As of version 2.6 is it able to automatically detect the language when you are running it from a command prompt ? I couldn't see anything in the help, no switchs and it defaulting everything to german unless you specify something else (from the command prompt).
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29th March 2009, 16:59 | #150 | Link | |||||||
Author of BDSup2Sub
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 478
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You're welcome, although by experience, there's usually a "but". Quote:
Indeed I played with the idea myself, but then decided that probably nobody would ever need this as I couldn't imagine a (commonly needed) use case. Quote:
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BTW: Changing Y position alone would be no complete solution. I stumbled over subtitles which nearly fill the whole screen vertically, since there's an upper line above the picture and a lower line below the picture. In this case, the described algorithm would fail, since the subpicture would need to be scaled down. Quote:
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So if you say that "SupRead matches the color of what is shown on a Panasonic BD30", this would also mean that BDSup2Sub shows the same colors. Then again, since SupRip shows different colors than SUPread, the whole statement is questionable to say the least. Also, I'm still not convinced that MPC-HC can display SUPs at all. With all M2TS I tried up to now, MPC-HC didn't display any embedded SUPs at all (option greyed out). Quote:
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29th March 2009, 20:16 | #151 | Link | ||||
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There are other ways around of course, like using resolution 1920x800 and some zoom mode for video on such playback SW where subs have fixed position. I'm currently playing with different ideas so it's hard to say directly what would work out best. When I look into my blu-ray/hd dvd collection I'd say around half of the titles have subs inside the video frame and others are like on normal DVD release, partly outside the video frame. Quote:
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Would be nice to know if there are any other having same kind of ideas, I mean I can't be only one considering wider screen and needing subtitles at the same time |
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29th March 2009, 21:48 | #152 | Link |
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I just discovered this tool today and I must say I'm impressed. I prefer subtitles to be positioned in the black bar below the image in 2:35 movies. While BDSup2Sub can do this, I could only figure out how to do it frame by frame. Would it be possible to implement some sort of global repositioning box so all subtitles can be repositioned at once?
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29th March 2009, 22:31 | #154 | Link | |
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Currently I make an .srt, then re-create and re-position using tsMuxeR, but if this tool could just re-pos the original sups that might work too (though now that I think of it, this may put the original sups too high into the picture). |
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30th March 2009, 06:36 | #155 | Link |
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Hopefully these pics will take out the confusion.
Clockwise from upper left: MPC-HC, 720p in suprip 1.13, 720p in supread, 1080p in bdsup2sub set to resize to 720p, 720p output in bdsup2sub no swap in 1.26 swap in 2.6 bdsup2sub 2.4 panasonic BD30 shows what mpc-hc and suprip see in these cases. the original 1080p source appears blue in bd30, mpc-hc and suprip, supread doesn't display. to enable bdsup in mpc-hc you need to choose vmr windowless, haali or evr in options > playback > output, restart the player, then choose from navigate > subtitle language if PS3 and BD30 are showing different colors I think there is an issue with bdsup2sub's color palette as the original displays blue on both players. Last edited by turbojet; 30th March 2009 at 06:39. |
30th March 2009, 11:40 | #156 | Link | |||
Author of BDSup2Sub
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Posts: 478
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Well, if MPC-HC shows a SUP in this case (which is hard to tell), then this only proves that it uses the (inverted) color order that SupRip does, but not the one that the PS3 does.
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In this case, the definition in the BD specs was somewhat worthless anyway and BDSup2Sub way to handle it (via swap option) was the only possibility anyway. |
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30th March 2009, 13:22 | #157 | Link | |
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"The Italian Job - 10 - Subtitle (PGS), English, 1467 captions.sub" so BDSup2Sub simply needs to load the LAST language found in the file name. Also, for what its worth, the GUI successfully detected the following languages for me, granted, in a file name without conflicting language codes. Italian, Spanish, French, Japanese, Korean, Swedish, Dutch... only one I found that may be a bug (or perhaps only my ignorance) is detecting what EAC3TO described as "Modern Greek" as "Greek"... Also, your program rocks. But it still needs a switch for loading language tags automatically from the command prompt. If you think it is an issue then just turn it off by default, but I have a dream of dropping 15 sup files on a batch file... Last edited by jonathonsunshine; 30th March 2009 at 13:28. |
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31st March 2009, 01:33 | #158 | Link | |
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SupRip 2.4 or earlier works correct Since 2.5 the inverse of the gui is what's being displayed on BD30. If gui shows blue the BD30 will show yellow with a bunch of orange spots and it's very difficult to read. If gui shows yellow BD30 shows blue. I don't know how it is for Iron Man, if I had access to the sup I'd try it out. But for now I will just stick to 2.4 as I don't want to play this guessing game with colors. At least until BDSup2Sub is fixed or I come across a colored sup that doesn't keep it's correct colors. Thanks for the app anyways. Last edited by turbojet; 31st March 2009 at 01:38. |
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31st March 2009, 10:36 | #159 | Link | |||
Author of BDSup2Sub
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No offense, but sentences like this make it hard to tell which of your statements are correct and which are misleading. Quote:
Just in case that this is still not 100% clear: when exporting SUPs, BDSup2Sub doesn't touch the palette at all. Neither colors are altered nor added. The only possible change to the palette is swapping the Cr and Cb components if (and only if) the swap option is active. This is what 2.5 always did by mistake. Or to put in other words: the fact that 2.6 displays (!) different colors than 2.4 has no influence on the saved palette at all as long as you store a SUP. Conversion to SUB/IDX is based on the actually shown colors of course. Quote:
Let me put it this way: maybe the color model or at least he order of the Cb and Cr depends on some information in the original M2TS stream. E.g. it could be possible that it's bound to the video codec. If so, this information is gone in the ripped SUP stream. As far as I can tell, there's nothing in a SUP stream that would tell me if the colors are stored as YCbCr or YCrCb. The only thing I can tell is that if I demux the M2TS of the German edition of "Iron Man" with EAC3TO, the color order needed to reproduce the colors displayed on a PS3 is YCrCb. If there are discs or other circumstances which need YCbCr instead, I implemented the swap option, which makes BDSup2Sub behave exactly as it did before version 2.5 regarding SUB/IDX. For SUPs, 2.6 (with disabled swap option) behaves exactly like 2.4 anyway despite of the different colors displayed. To claim that only 2.4 behaves "correct" and 2.5 and above lead to a "guessing game with colors" or simply "incorrect" colors, is therefore not really reasonable. The opposite is true: BDSup2Sub 2.6 gives you much more control than 2.4 did (or any other tool does). BTW: I tried MTC-HC (1.2.990.0) with different output settings (EVR, EVR custom pres., VMR9 (windowed), VMR9 (renderless) - Haali was greyed out) and none of them showed any subtitle of any original (decrypted, but otherwise untouched) M2TS I tried. Now I updated to 1.2.1015.0 and it displays subtitles. But as I already guessed, the colors are different to what the PS3 shows (yellow is cyan, cyan is yellow). Last edited by 0xdeadbeef; 31st March 2009 at 11:09. |
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31st March 2009, 13:20 | #160 | Link |
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Have you even looked at the pics?
If you have and read what I wrote you should know what I mean by 2.4 being correct and a guessing game with 2.5 and 2.6 as far as Panasonic BD30, SupRip, MPC-HC, PowerDVD, ArcSoft TMT, WinDVD, and BD Rebuilder is concerned. I really would expect to get the same color output the gui shows me which has been the case up until 2.5 Have you even tested the sup I'm working with that's still available? Take that sup and see what color the original is on your PS3 and also see what colors are shown after running it through BDSup2Sub both swapped and unswapped and report back. This way you can prove or disprove my assumption that if the original plays with the same color on all players but different then blue when ran through BDSup2Sub unswapped there's something wrong with BDSup2Sub's output. Anyhow unless you test my sup I don't want to spend any more time trying to explain it through words to you. Last edited by turbojet; 31st March 2009 at 13:53. |
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