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Old 25th June 2008, 16:15   #21  |  Link
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Those of you now planning a street party do remember to send me an invitation
OK. Tonight, Bayreuth. Grilling and football: European Championship semi finals: Germany against Turkey. This country will go crazy later tonight: no matter how the match ends.

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Thx for the info. Will be interesting to keep an eye on this.
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Old 26th June 2008, 02:09   #22  |  Link
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Yes! Matroska for the win =) Thanks, DivX!!
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Old 26th June 2008, 03:48   #23  |  Link
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DivX 7 will use the MKV container format! That's right, you heard it here first: our new format does not use AVI! Those of you now planning a street party do remember to send me an invitation

Yeah, let's not do that
\0/ I can talk about it now ;-) its good to hear that DivX has adopted Matroska (welcome aboard)... I will talk about more details on what is coming up for Matroska, especially as it relates to v2.0 and the Matroska Foundation later on (and not to go far OT).
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Old 26th June 2008, 13:02   #24  |  Link
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@ DigitAl56K

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Sorry if this is off topic, but
... is there any chance that DivX 7 will implement support for GPU encoding... certainly a great boost to HD encodes !

It's all good.



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Old 27th June 2008, 04:25   #25  |  Link
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Yes I would like to see this as well... I have 2 3870 x2 OC edition's and would love to see them help the CPU Out...
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Old 27th June 2008, 19:01   #26  |  Link
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DivX 7 will use the MKV container format! That's right, you heard it here first: our new format does not use AVI! Those of you now planning a street party do remember to send me an invitation
will divx use native avc mode or vfw compatbility mode in mkv?
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Old 27th June 2008, 20:19   #27  |  Link
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DivX 7 will use the MKV container format!
Another big thumbs up from me!!

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Old 28th June 2008, 04:48   #28  |  Link
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All this hardware compatibility stuff seems an odd discussion to be having considering how much is defined by the H264 standard. Shouldn't you just be able to use the different levels to determine hardware compatibility rather than creating your own (which for the most part are very limited compression wise in ASP). That way every encoder can simply conform to the various levels rather than trying to meet a specific set that divx sets.
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Old 28th June 2008, 04:49   #29  |  Link
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will divx use native avc mode or vfw compatbility mode in mkv?
One would hope that vfw isn't even in their vocabulary when talking about AVC.
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Old 29th June 2008, 23:10   #30  |  Link
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Maybe someone should point Sascha Segan of PC magazine at this thread. Someone needs to tell him DivX is entering the tentacle porn industry.
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Old 30th June 2008, 07:54   #31  |  Link
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@ spyder

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Maybe someone should point Sascha Segan of PC magazine at this thread.
Welcome back... nice to see MKV developers surfacing on Doom9.

It's all good !



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Old 30th June 2008, 20:02   #32  |  Link
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... is there any chance that DivX 7 will implement support for GPU encoding... certainly a great boost to HD encodes !
Hi Pascal,

Similar to the decoder we are working on the software implementation first. Of course there is always a chance in the future, but it's not something you'll see in 7.0.

Although GPU encoding could be fast (in fact a recent article from Anandtech show it is fast), I'm going to hold my breath until I see someone talk of the quality/efficiency that can be achieved. You'll notice that so far the details here range from light to non-existent CUDA though is definitely interesting, as is the AMD Stream Computing SDK.

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will divx use native avc mode or vfw compatbility mode in mkv?
While we continue to develop elements of our spec we're trying to avoid going into details too early. I'll make sure to address your question as soon as I'm able to do so with confidence.

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Shouldn't you just be able to use the different levels to determine hardware compatibility rather than creating your own (which for the most part are very limited compression wise in ASP).
Well, to begin I'd say that our compression in the ASP encoder was not very limited. If you compare it to an unrestricted encoder such as XVID on best settings you'll probably struggle to get more than 5-10% better efficiency for the same quality while the DivX profile-compliant version will have much better compatibility with devices. At the end of the day it's a balancing act. Personally, while I always strive for the highest quality I can get I really won't loose any sleep over 50MB of hard drive space, but recoding a video later just so that a friend can watch it on their DVD player is going to be a real pain.

Levels are one way to go, but then ASP also had levels. Levels work only if all manufacturers fully support everything in the same level equally well, and that doesn't always happen. There are ASP devices even today that still can't pass DivX Home Theater certification. What we actually did with ASP was to talk to many manufacturers to understand what all of their devices were capable of in terms of feature support, rate support and so forth, and then define a profile that we believed would bring interoperability across many of these devices without sacrificing efficiency too much. We're doing the same now for H.264 and we have had a lot of feedback that is very varied. The challenge is to bring this all together into a good solution not only for the manufacturers but for the community. Beyond the spec for the video bitstream we also need to ensure that every element of the format is specified and that conforming media will play reliably everywhere. It's neither a small nor easy task.

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Maybe someone should point Sascha Segan of PC magazine at this thread. Someone needs to tell him DivX is entering the tentacle porn industry.
Sounds like a press release!
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Old 30th June 2008, 20:26   #33  |  Link
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Well, to begin I'd say that our compression in the ASP encoder was not very limited. If you compare it to an unrestricted encoder such as XVID on best settings you'll probably struggle to get more than 5-10% better efficiency for the same quality while the DivX profile-compliant version will have much better compatibility with devices. At the end of the day it's a balancing act. Personally, while I always strive for the highest quality I can get I really won't loose any sleep over 50MB of hard drive space, but recoding a video later just so that a friend can watch it on their DVD player is going to be a real pain.

Levels are one way to go, but then ASP also had levels. Levels work only if all manufacturers fully support everything in the same level equally well, and that doesn't always happen. There are ASP devices even today that still can't pass DivX Home Theater certification. What we actually did with ASP was to talk to many manufacturers to understand what all of their devices were capable of in terms of feature support, rate support and so forth, and then define a profile that we believed would bring interoperability across many of these devices without sacrificing efficiency too much. We're doing the same now for H.264 and we have had a lot of feedback that is very varied. The challenge is to bring this all together into a good solution not only for the manufacturers but for the community. Beyond the spec for the video bitstream we also need to ensure that every element of the format is specified and that conforming media will play reliably everywhere. It's neither a small nor easy task.

Well IMHO I think that saying that 50MB of space is plenty of space to waste for the same quality of video. I suppose if I look at it from your compatibility point with your profiles the quality is fine for that.

I however don't really buy into the argument that the levels can't be used. they are well defined on what one should expect out of each profile. A hardware manufacturer can't say the support x level if they really don't. So in reality it would be best to push fully compliant support across hardware manufacturers.

While this is definitely detrimental to DivX on the branding level as DivX compliant would simply be another word for AVC Levels Compliant I think it would be better off for AVC as a whole and accomplishes the same point of what Divx certification does.

that's the main difficulty with ASP is that there are so many different vendor specific profiles going around (Nero, Divx, Xvid (various)) that I personally see myself looking at a huge chart going.....so what plays what? Will my Nero files play on divx will my divx files play on nero. If everyone sticks to the standard I don't have to ask myself that question if I buy such a hardware device. We need to avoid it in AVC if at all possible.

At least that's how I feel about it. Not sure how many would agree with me but I think that fewer profiles is better.
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:03   #34  |  Link
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At least that's how I feel about it. Not sure how many would agree with me but I think that fewer profiles is better.
Agreed, that's why we're trying to find a combination that works broadly. Can you pick a level right now and based on that alone know that your file will play well everywhere?
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:10   #35  |  Link
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Agreed, that's why we're trying to find a combination that works broadly. Can you pick a level right now and based on that alone know that your file will play well everywhere?
Level 4.1 High Profile; it'll play on all devices I care about.

Even DivX obviously can't get playback everywhere; unless you're willing to go for Restricted Baseline to satisfy iPods, of course, in which case you're completely crippling the format to the point of uselessness, which I'm pretty sure DivX won't do.

You have to draw the line somewhere, no matter who you are and what you're doing.
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:23   #36  |  Link
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Level 4.1 High Profile; it'll play on all devices I care about.

Even DivX obviously can't get playback everywhere; unless you're willing to go for Restricted Baseline to satisfy iPods, of course, in which case you're completely crippling the format to the point of uselessness, which I'm pretty sure DivX won't do.

You have to draw the line somewhere, no matter who you are and what you're doing.
perfect example of what i was talking about. Just picking and choosing random features to support is incredibly confusing. If it was like 4.1 high then you know exactly what can and cannot be enabled in the encoder.

For all these things XBOX 360, PS3, ipods, iphones, etc used levels it would be a much better place.
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:27   #37  |  Link
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Level 4.1 High Profile; it'll play on all devices I care about.
It'll play on BluRay players.
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:31   #38  |  Link
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It'll play on BluRay players.
High@Level 4.1 is the maximum specified profile for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD....
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:37   #39  |  Link
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It'll play on BluRay players.
And most STBs and Xbox 360 and PS3 and all hardware-acceleration-supporting graphics cards and basically all standalone players...

I can't think of anything in the gap between "hardware player supporting HD material at Level 4.1" and "little device I can hold in my hand" (PSP, iPod, etc).
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Old 30th June 2008, 21:38   #40  |  Link
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As I understand it, the problem is that every manufacturer can just use the label »support for H.264 profile/level x/y« without any restriction. There are no procedures in place to ensure that such a device actually fully supports profile x and level y.

On the other hand you are only allowed to put a »DivX profile X« sticker onto your device if you’ve gone through the DivX certification process. So as a consumer the DivX profile label tells me exactly and (more important) reliably what the device is capable of.

Of course the full DivX profile specs should be freely available to everyone so that one can setup any encoder to produce compliant video. That might already be the case for current DivX profiles, I’ve never checked.
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