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Old 7th January 2008, 15:26   #101  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil Einne View Post
Um if you don't have a PS2/X360 and don't intend to play in one, why would you give a damn what they can or can't do?
Lets say you have this movie, and you transcode that movie with x264, and then take the disc to a friend, who only has a xbox360, the file would have to be compatible with the xbox 360 in order to work.

I have encountered this problemen quite a few times (most people i know seem to have wildly different setups of video plaback hardware @_@)

Also i think the programmers of x264 would like for their program to be as compatible as possible with all the playback solutions, as this would lead to more users of the program.
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Old 7th January 2008, 15:31   #102  |  Link
audyovydeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nil Einne View Post
Um if you don't have a PS2/X360 and don't intend to play in one, why would you give a damn what they can or can't do?
Hello ? Don't forget this thread's title :

"x264 + more than 4 ref frames = no DXVA or 20fps bug (ati avivo, nvidia purevideo)"

so everyone who's hoping to get their video card to do what it's marketed to do ought to be interested.

cheers
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Old 7th January 2008, 18:09   #103  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Originally Posted by UsedUser View Post
I tested clips at 480p and 576p on my Nvidia 8800GT (G92 decoder).

They worked with DXVA at L4.1, L4.0, L3.2 settings, but showed choppy playback and/or block errors.

My test methodology was to keep the DPB size within L4.1, which at either 480p or 576p allows DPB=16. Then I dropped the level_idc tag from 4.1 to 4.0 to 3.2 to 3.1, looking to see if the L4.1 streams could be decoded smoothly if the level_idc was lower. This demonstrated that the stream itself has to have DPB size within L3.1.

I then encoded 480p and 576p streams at their L3.1 DPB size limits, with the level_idc set at 4.1. DXVA worked, but as with the L4.1 streams with a level_idc of 5.1, playback was choppy with the level_idc set too high. This showed the level_idc needs to be L3.1.

For 480p and 576p, the DPB size needs to stay within L3.1, and the level_idc needs to be L3.1 for smooth playback.

The bottom line overall seems to be that streams need to comply with and declare L4.1 for HD and L3.1 for SD.

The following SD streams had smooth playback with DXVA:

480p, ref=13, bframes=3, DPB=13, level_idc=3.1
576p, ref=11, bframes=3, DPB=11, level_idc=3.1


The following SD streams had choppy playback with DXVA:

480p, ref=16, bframes=16, b-pyramid=on, DPB=16, level_idc=4.1
480p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=4.1
480p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=4.0
480p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=3.2
480p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=3.1
480p, ref=13, bframes=3, DPB=13, level_idc=4.1

576p, ref=16, bframes=16, b-pyramid=on, DPB=16, level_idc=4.1
576p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=4.1
576p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=4.0
576p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=3.2
576p, ref=16, bframes=16, DPB=16, level_idc=3.1
576p, ref=11, bframes=3, DPB=11, level_idc=4.1

So what would you advice for best overal settings for 720x(any)?

Or de they have to be split up in 720x576 and 720x480?
Also would these settings still be valid for the no black space resolutions like.

640x352
608x256
592x448
720x544
640x360
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Old 8th January 2008, 03:33   #104  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
So what would you advice for best overal settings for 720x(any)?
A safe value for 720x(720 or less) would be DPB=8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
Or de they have to be split up in 720x576 and 720x480?
Also would these settings still be valid for the no black space resolutions like.

640x352
608x256
592x448
720x544
640x360
My personal preference, I would use the PS3 profile without B-pyramid for everything. That would result in DPB=3, no matter the resolution.

If I was feeling lucky, I might push up to DPB=5, but that's it. The quality / encoding time balance is good for me right about there. The Ateme encoder in Nero Digital maxes out at 3-5 DPB as well.

I think I've finally arrived at set-it-and-forget options with the PS3 profile sans B-pyramid.

Last edited by UsedUser; 8th January 2008 at 03:36.
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Old 8th January 2008, 03:56   #105  |  Link
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Quote:
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My personal preference, I would use the PS3 profile without B-pyramid for everything. That would result in DPB=3, no matter the resolution.

But what about this?
Quote:
The bottom line overall seems to be that streams need to comply with and declare L4.1 for HD and L3.1 for SD.

I've made two profiles just in case - one for SD/DVD and one for HD. The difference is the Level and vbv-maxrate.

I also use CRF instead.

Code:
 --pass 1 --crf 20 --stats ".stats" --progress --keyint 250 --bframes 3 --qpmin 10 --qpmax 51 --mixed-refs --trellis 1 --ref 3 --filter -2,-1 --subme 6 --direct auto --vbv-maxrate 14000 --me umh --level 4.1 --merange 12 --weightb --b-rdo --bime --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --threads auto --thread-input --no-dct-decimate

-Robert
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Old 8th January 2008, 04:27   #106  |  Link
Sharktooth
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Q: would you like to have "DXVA friendly" profiles based on your findings in MeGUI?
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Old 8th January 2008, 04:46   #107  |  Link
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Originally Posted by akupenguin View Post
Oops, you need to encode with at least as many refs as B-frames, otherwise some of the B-frames won't have any future ref.
-r2 -b2 --no-b-adapt worked. -r3 -b3 --no-b-adapt still doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akupenguin View Post
I'm also interested in how the 3 experiments fare when not stressing the DPB. So try each with "-r2 -b2" and "-r3 -b3".
--b-adapt on or off?

Last edited by UsedUser; 8th January 2008 at 04:56.
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Old 8th January 2008, 04:55   #108  |  Link
UsedUser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharktooth View Post
Q: would you like to have "DXVA friendly" profiles based on your findings in MeGUI?
It would be great.

My vote would be to have a DXVA-HD profile: PS3 settings, except without B-pyramid; and a DXVA-SD profile: PS3 settings, except without B-pyramid and with --level 3.1.

Though, since we're still working out B-frame issues with B-pyramid, maybe we should wait until the finished patches get into the code.
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Old 8th January 2008, 10:49   #109  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharktooth View Post
Q: would you like to have "DXVA friendly" profiles based on your findings in MeGUI?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedUser View Post
It would be great.

My vote would be to have a DXVA-HD profile: PS3 settings, except without B-pyramid; and a DXVA-SD profile: PS3 settings, except without B-pyramid and with --level 3.1.

Though, since we're still working out B-frame issues with B-pyramid, maybe we should wait until the finished patches get into the code.
i think UsedUser is right, we should have it all figured out, and (if needed) x264 should be updated before the gui's
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Old 8th January 2008, 11:30   #110  |  Link
akupenguin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedUser View Post
--b-adapt on or off?
If b-adapt has anything to do with compatibility, the decoder is much more crippled than I thought.
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Old 8th January 2008, 16:02   #111  |  Link
shon3i
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I found this profiles in Elecard Converter Studio 2.0, and i think will be usefull here

"BluRay SD AVC", resolution if not will be automaticly resized to 720x576 and aspet ratio can be changed, and profile have this options





"BluRay HD AVC", resolution if not will be automaticly resized to 1920x1080 and aspet ratio can be changed, and profile have this options






And aslo i found some interesting thing in both, ateme and elecard/mainconcept's documentation for AVC encoders, to use MV Range of 255 for SD and 511 for HD.

Last edited by shon3i; 8th January 2008 at 16:06.
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Old 9th January 2008, 12:52   #112  |  Link
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Quote:
ateme and elecard/mainconcept's documentation for AVC encoders, to use MV Range of 255 for SD and 511 for HD
MV Range is given by the level, not by the encoder. And there seem to be a typo in Elecard Converter Studio 2.0, since level 3.2 has a MV range of 511, not 255.
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Old 9th January 2008, 13:15   #113  |  Link
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MV Range is limited by level, but the encoder is free to pick a smaller value, and may or may not specify the value it picked in the VUI header.
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Old 10th January 2008, 14:49   #114  |  Link
CruNcher
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NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
ModeMPEG2_IDCT: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_IDCT: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_IDCT: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_MoComp: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_MoComp: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeVC1_PostProc: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
ModeWMV9_PostProc: [NV12] 720x480 / 1280x720 / 1920x1080
1720AC81-9D1B-4F63-9A37-4A88483D0B87: [NV12]
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT: [NV12]


AVC/H.264:

ffdshow Video Decoder
Unknown

MainConcept AVC/H.264 Video Decoder [avc1 1920x1080]
Unsupported

CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD7.x) [avc1 1920x1080]
ModeH264_VLD_NoFGT(*)
ModeH264_VLD_FGT
ModeH264_MoComp_PureVideo
NV12 (ModeH264_MoComp_NoFGT)
ModeH264_MoComp_Avivo
ModeMPEG2_IDCT

Nero DVD Decoder [avc1 1920x1080]
ModeH264_MoComp_PureVideo
ModeH264_MoComp_Avivo
GUID_NULL

Nero Video Decoder [avc1 1920x1080]
ModeH264_MoComp_PureVideo
ModeH264_MoComp_Avivo
GUID_NULL

CoreAVC Video Decoder [avc1 1920x1080]
Unsupported

MPEG-2:

fdshow Video Decoder
Unknown

Elecard MPEG-2 Video Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_D(*)
ModeMPEG2_A
ModeMPEG2_C

MainConcept MPEG-2 Video Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_D(*)
ModeMPEG2_A
ModeMPEG2_C

CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7) [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_VLD
ModeMPEG2_D
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_C(*)
ModeMPEG2_A

Nero DVD Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_D
ModeMPEG2_C
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_A

Nero Video Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_D
ModeMPEG2_C
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_A

ArcSoft MPEG Video Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
Unsupported

Sonic Cinemaster® VideoDecoder 4.1 [MPEG2 1920x1080]
None

ArcSoft Video Decoder [MPEG2 1920x1080]
ModeMPEG2_D(*)
ModeMPEG2_C
ModeMPEG2_B
ModeMPEG2_A

CyberLink Video/SP BD-HD Decoder (PDVD7.x)
Unknown

ArcSoft DVD Video Decoder
Unknown

VC-1:

ffdshow Video Decoder
Unknown

MainConcept VC-1 Decoder [WVC1 1920x1080]
Unsupported

WMVideo Decoder DMO [WVC1 1920x1080]
ModeVC1_IDCT(*)
ModeVC1_MoComp
ModeVC1_PostProc

Nero DVD Decoder [WVC1 1920x1080]
GUID_NULL

Nero Video Decoder [WVC1 1920x1080]
GUID_NULL

Sonic Cinemaster® VideoDecoder 4.1 [WVC1 1920x1080]
None

This http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DXVAChecker_1401.zip is a cool programm it analyzes the Dshow filter it's DXVA capabilities and even shows the use of the PureVideo or Avivo API
You can also find Parser/Decoder problems that way
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Last edited by CruNcher; 10th January 2008 at 15:07.
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Old 15th January 2008, 16:57   #115  |  Link
shon3i
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I tested with one HD and one SD resolution.

HD - 1920x1080 - Elecard Conveter Studio 2.0 - Blurray HD AVC profile - 23.976 fps - decodes smoothly in mkv container with DTS audio, no errors.

SD - 720x432 - Elecard Conveter Studio 2.0 - Blurray SD AVC profile - 25.000fps - still have 20fps bug

SD - 720x576 - Elecard Conveter Studio 2.0 - Blurray SD AVC profile - 25.000fps - Everything is fine.

Looks like for SD, resoultion must be 720x576 or 852x480.

EDIT: Did is somebody make Elecard/Mainconcept H264 to decode with HW acceleration?

Last edited by shon3i; 15th January 2008 at 17:12.
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Old 15th January 2008, 17:18   #116  |  Link
Sharktooth
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Quote:
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Though, since we're still working out B-frame issues with B-pyramid, maybe we should wait until the finished patches get into the code.
Yes, sure, im only asking that coz i will completely re-organize the profiles.
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Old 16th January 2008, 18:45   #117  |  Link
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Any news on the "B-frame issues with B-pyramid"

And shon3i

What level did you select for this one?

SD - 720x432 - Elecard Conveter Studio 2.0 - Blurray SD AVC profile - 25.000fps - still have 20fps bug
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Old 16th January 2008, 18:50   #118  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
...

This http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DXVAChecker_1401.zip is a cool programm it analyzes the Dshow filter it's DXVA capabilities and even shows the use of the PureVideo or Avivo API
You can also find Parser/Decoder problems that way
This fine is 404, can you upload it somewhere?
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Old 16th January 2008, 19:11   #119  |  Link
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Try this :
http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DXVAChecker_1501.zip
requires .NET 3 (arg)
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Old 16th January 2008, 19:54   #120  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55
And shon3i

What level did you select for this one?

SD - 720x432 - Elecard Conveter Studio 2.0 - Blurray SD AVC profile - 25.000fps - still have 20fps bug
I tryed with 3.2 and 4.1. I doing some testing right now, to see what problem can be.
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