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Old 4th January 2003, 22:52   #1  |  Link
Vertigo50
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Recommended Video Capture for Newbie

Ok, I would love a recommendation on a video capture card. Here are my requirements.

1. I want to convert VHS tapes to SVCD and burn them to 2 or 3 cd's each. (I've used DVD2SVCD program and like the VBR option for high quality, and I would like to be able to split movies at certain points for the disc switching.) Maybe I'm dreaming, but we'll see.

2. I want to be able to convert VHS or DVD or some other "analog" source to maybe some other formats like AVI, and be able to edit them somewhat. (I'm a film composer, and need a way to get video in the digital realm for synchronization purposes.)

3. I'm looking to spend under $100. I know this might be low, but that's about what I have to work with.

I've been looking at the AverDVD EZmaker kit, and have heard that pairing it with Ulead Mediastudio gives good results. What does anyone think of this card?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Old 4th January 2003, 23:18   #2  |  Link
dar1us
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Grr, sorry but all of these recco' threads are beginning to annoy me

Please search through (the last two months) and look for threads along these lines. Things have changed since two months ago, but not any greatly new, different and fancy cards have appeared.

Quickly, you may like to take a peek at the following.
WinFastTV 2000 or somthing like that
MSI TV@nywhere (seems to work quite well)
FlyVideo cards (Phillips 7134 Decoder)
any cards with the following decoders should be nice, they are the latest decoder microchips from the top brands.
Phillips SAA7134 and
Conexant CX2388x (or CX881? I am confused by which it contains, something along those lines)
BT8x8, I think that is the product code.
All of them work quite well.

But please, look about the capture forum over the past two months for good threads on the subject.
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Old 6th January 2003, 04:38   #3  |  Link
NeVeRLiFt
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ATI has some ok cards some people like them, and some hate them.
The AIW series is the best out of the bunch IMO. The WinFast cards good but for a good one you will pay over $100 but it's well worth it.
As for software I prefer CCE or TMPGEnc for encoding my VCD/SVCD/DVD's. Use Nero for most burning. For more advanced/features and adding stuff to your SVCD/DVD's I recommend Sonic ReelDVD and VegasVideo.

I would do alot research on the card you choose before getting it.

Good Luck
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Old 6th January 2003, 09:50   #4  |  Link
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Problem with the ATI cards is that the technology they rely on is a little crooked.

Wasn't sure on the price of the winfast, it looked a little fancy for such a low price.

Though, I do give a good reccomendation to the MSI TV@nywhere.
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Old 6th January 2003, 23:02   #5  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by dar1us
Problem with the ATI cards is that the technology they rely on is a little crooked.
Can you expand on this use of "crooked." Maybe it's a British thing.

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Old 7th January 2003, 01:28   #6  |  Link
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Probably, but yanks use it as well?!

Crooked: a crooked old house: kinda crappy really, falling to bits, everything at jaunty angles (odd angles). but not meant literally there

in this instance, I specifically meant old

hope this has enlightened you all
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Old 7th January 2003, 19:10   #7  |  Link
NeVeRLiFt
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Before buying a ATI card or any for that matter do some research... ATI has not updated there drivers or software for some of there products in a very long time
I use a AIW based card and love it.
The TV wonders/ VE or others may not be as good.
One problem I know is something to do with the card only capturing with a 320x240 res or 640x240, etc... and people having to use open source driver for the bt878 chip that bypasses this (go to http://btwincap.sourceforge.net for more details).

and here is a nice thread at Rage3D thats addresses this problem
http://66.224.5.66/board/showthread....eadid=33649342
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Old 8th January 2003, 00:47   #8  |  Link
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>Can you expand on this use of "crooked." Maybe it's a British thing


no,it's not the correct term:
it's SHIT*Y LITTLE PIECE OF WORTHLESS JUNK!
that's how it should be pronounced!LOL!

anyone that says AIW has acceptable quality should check their eyes
first.....

i can't name a device that has image blurred as ATI.......
(ohh yes i can:ATI with "noise reduction" ON...)
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Old 8th January 2003, 00:54   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
>Can you expand on this use of "crooked." Maybe it's a British thing


no,it's not the correct term:
it's SHIT*Y LITTLE PIECE OF WORTHLESS JUNK!
that's how it should be pronounced!LOL!

anyone that says AIW has acceptable quality should check their eyes
first.....

i can't name a device that has image blurred as ATI.......
(ohh yes i can:ATI with "noise reduction" ON...)
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Old 8th January 2003, 01:37   #10  |  Link
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Blurrrraatron 5000 care of ATI (not a AIW) - TV Wonder VE, el noisarado!

You have to do a little SERIOUS (seriously bad) denoising from TMPGenc 1.2 i think. if you want anything out of that, the results are terrible. I will have to post some shows for laughs sake!

Here it WAS - VCD@850kbps (350 meg per episode, 2 on each CD, then I worked out you can VCD at 800 meg total - this was my FIRST EVER EVER EVER capture, capture card arrived about 2 hours before (2 hours tuning time

sorry it is attached, I cant connect to my webspace cos ISP cut me off until the 15th!! crappy BT



********HMM - ATTACH IS MESSED UP*******

Last edited by dar1us; 8th January 2003 at 01:40.
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Old 8th January 2003, 19:18   #11  |  Link
NeVeRLiFt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
>Can you expand on this use of "crooked." Maybe it's a British thing


no,it's not the correct term:
it's SHIT*Y LITTLE PIECE OF WORTHLESS JUNK!
that's how it should be pronounced!LOL!

anyone that says AIW has acceptable quality should check their eyes
first.....

i can't name a device that has image blurred as ATI.......
(ohh yes i can:ATI with "noise reduction" ON...)
Using my AIW with Satellite S-video-in and iuVCR capturing with XviD @512x384 using the Cyberlink deinterlace filter (deinterlaced during the capture) is truely stunning quality and size
Same goes for WMV9 and iuVCR capture's @320x240.
Sometimes use AVI_IO to.

For VCD/SVCD compliant captures that look very good I use MMC7.7
if you need to see samples to believe how nice the quality is then let me know and I upload you some.
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Old 8th January 2003, 19:51   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
if you need to see samples to believe how nice the quality is then let me know and I upload you some.
That would be great. Not that we don't believe you, just we are trying to get as many different cards/sources/samples as possible. Could you possibly add them to the "Samples" thread, and list your hardware, capture app, etc? If you can't post any avi samples due to bandwidth limitations, some high-res PNG/JPEG framegrabs will do just as well.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39432



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Old 8th January 2003, 20:32   #13  |  Link
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I have to give credit to this guy named Birdy about this filter and using it in iuVCR.

I was blown away with it

Before meeting Birdy and learning about this...
I was using AVI_IO and DivX5.02 Pro

http://www.csupomona.edu/~iwsnyder/mirror/index.html

This link should give the info you need to learn how and it has some samples to show the size/quality you can get with this. This method works well I guess.

As for iuVCR... at the time I was only using it for my WMV9 captures using a 320x240 resolution and getting some nice quality, maybe a little smooth thou but still pretty good for the size.

Then Birdy comes along and tells us iuVCR allows filter to be used during a capture and he has found this Cyberlink Deinterlace filter... and it works!! It works awesome take any codec in iuVCR and use this filter and capture and deinterlace on the fly during the capture.
We started using XviD and the results are crazy. Some very nice quality(better than SVCD and file size's ranging from 2.5 - 10mb depending on the scene's captured for the sample's.

I have some samples hosted here... not sure how long they will last thou so better grab them quick.

http://homey.dyndns.org/vid/index.asp?page=20

These are all straight captures took from my analog cable TV using my AIW Radeon. My cable TV is noisy and my captures show this(the SVCD one really shows this well)
Also have two DVDrip samples hosted there showing how good Nandub is with my settings

Have fun!


And for some freaky quality... Birdy using his PAL based Satellite with S-Video-in shows off his captures here using XviD and the Cyberlink filter! Must be seen to be believed

http://homey.dyndns.org/vid/index.asp?page=19
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Old 9th January 2003, 01:00   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
Using my AIW with Satellite S-video-in and iuVCR capturing with XviD @512x384 using the Cyberlink deinterlace filter (deinterlaced during the capture) is truely stunning quality and size
Same goes for WMV9 and iuVCR capture's @320x240.
Sometimes use AVI_IO to.

For VCD/SVCD compliant captures that look very good I use MMC7.7
if you need to see samples to believe how nice the quality is then let me know and I upload you some.
ntsc people use xxx x 480 (or hdtv stuff as i see)
pal people use xxx x 576 (or do it in unproper way...)
i'm dloading few of the samples
(and will comment as i always do!without any pitty for the capturer....hehe just kidding.....)

are you ABSOLUTELY sure that mjpeg or huff won't yield you better results than XVID?
i mean really sure?
also does this mean you're capturing straight to XVID that will be burned to cdr's afterwards?
if so,may i ask have you tried capturing to intermediate format first and then converting to xvid or divx afterwards?
also.....have you tried using deinterlacers in post process and compared that to deint on the fly?
the things can be done in quick and dirty way,or in slow and proper way.........what would you say which one pleases the eye better?

save your eyes my friend.......some day you might need them!
staring at blurred video images is not recommended.....
(dr.Ivo....LOL!)

anyhow (completely OT) i have seen some of the worst things about this forum written by you neverlift,and (wait for it, wait for it!)
i agreed on that (!) ( i saw some snippets of that,not complete thing ) and i myself was tempted many times to write down that stuff and permanently depart from here.......
i still don't know what keeps me here.......
(it MUST be that i adore the mods!LOL!)

cheers

Ivo
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Old 9th January 2003, 01:44   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
http://homey.dyndns.org/vid/index.asp?page=20

These are all straight captures took from my analog cable TV using my AIW Radeon. My cable TV is noisy and my captures show this(the SVCD one really shows this well)
[/i]
This is quite good considering it's straight from analog cable to low-bitrate MPEG2. Much better than I could ever hope to achieve, which is why I have to capture to MJPEG then filter/encode.
Quote:
And for some freaky quality... Birdy using his PAL based Satellite with S-Video-in shows off his captures here using XviD and the Cyberlink filter! Must be seen to be believed
http://homey.dyndns.org/vid/index.asp?page=19
Downloaded the file "Birdy.avi." It appears the deinterlacing worked well, but I have never seen a high-res capture so blurry in my life! There must be some _massive_ noise reduction pre-filtering being used!?

cjv
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Old 9th January 2003, 01:54   #16  |  Link
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I have captured to Mjpeg and Huffyuv and then encoded it to what I want. But capturing using iuVCR and the filter works so good there is no need really.


Please do not in no way think this is perfect or best.... cause if thats what a person wants then by all means capture using Huffyuv or PicVideo's Mjpeg and then encode it to what you want. Most people with cable TV need to do this anyway so they can use certain filters because of noise in the TV stations.


Thanks for the kind comments and opinions.


take it easy

Last edited by NeVeRLiFt; 9th January 2003 at 01:58.
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Old 9th January 2003, 01:57   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^


anyhow (completely OT) i have seen some of the worst things about this forum written by you neverlift,and (wait for it, wait for it!)
i agreed on that (!) ( i saw some snippets of that,not complete thing ) and i myself was tempted many times to write down that stuff and permanently depart from here.......
i still don't know what keeps me here.......
(it MUST be that i adore the mods!LOL!)

cheers

Ivo

Ya well everything I said was true and my quality DVDrips made using Nandub and my settings show this
And certain people really abused their power... dont think this will be happening anymore.
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Old 9th January 2003, 02:07   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by cjv
This is quite good considering it's straight from analog cable to low-bitrate MPEG2. Much better than I could ever hope to achieve, which is why I have to capture to MJPEG then filter/encode.

Downloaded the file "Birdy.avi." It appears the deinterlacing worked well, but I have never seen a high-res capture so blurry in my life! There must be some _massive_ noise reduction pre-filtering being used!?

cjv
Thanks!
Did you check the WMV9 capture? I captured a 2hr movie like this and it was under 600mb in size!

Did you check all of Birdy's samples? Some look better than others even thou there very large... I really gave him a hard time over the file size. But for a straight capture I was impressed and with my cable TV I can'nt match his capture's. I gave up my satellite so i could have my cable modem and I miss my clean captures
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Old 9th January 2003, 02:49   #19  |  Link
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Should warn you all not to use B-frames in XviD while capturing.
Makes some unstable video's that can have some weird problems.

I think its more a decoder problem but I'm not 100% sure.
Birdy does not use them anyway and the build he recommends is a stable one that does not include them... I on the other hand tested them And it really helps the size.

Out of all my samples the only ones that are XviD are these two...
some really fast motion for birdy.avi
smallest possible high quality capture for birdy.avi

My others are not there for download, I figured Birdy's looked so good why show mine.

Well enough rambling, I look forward to people's opinions on this.




If anyone has any problem playing my XviD samples I'm sorry I used B-frames in them and they dont play back good always. I just dont use B-frames in my captures unless its for testing.
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Old 10th January 2003, 00:40   #20  |  Link
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>Should warn you all not to use B-frames in XviD while capturing

i've noticed that frame drop causes back-forth jerk if b-frames are applied on encoding of video (that originally had frame drops)

also,768x576 won't play that good on my machine as i have poor cpu...
(otherwise i too would be doing it without resizing,like birdy...as that keeps sharpness more than anything else....)

samples indeed look fine!
both yours and birdy's.....
i've looked few commercials (the deinterlace mode there was "blend",right? that's not good for all the cases i think....for some perhaps.....commercials of birdy are not deinterlaced so good....
commercial for chockolate has lil girl all trembling.....yes,my cpu was ok on that excerpt...)
and scene from rtl movie.....
it's pretty decent (but i still can't recommend on-thy-fly capture to end format OR deinterlacing along the way....it should be done later for proper quality..)
also some junk should be removed from top/bottom,not just leave capture as it is...........(birdy)
and one needs what CPU to capture to 768x576 xvid directly?
there are better ways if you wan't better source file.....

yours svcd (u-boot or ship?)
looks fine too.......
but why not leave it interlaced (you have mentioned some weird capture resolution... xxx x 360 or so ?) ie. capture at xxx x 480 (as i see you're ntsc svcd 480x480) and leave it that way....?

>certain people really abused their power

my thoughts too...certain people.....

cheers

Ivo
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