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Old 27th May 2004, 19:42   #490  |  Link
kempfand
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Switzerland
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Quote:
Thanks for the links. I tried a couple of these. While they certainly are more impressive than the results from the ambisonics bidules, I don't see them lending a convincing sound to a 5.1 mix of music. The vantage point would be somewhat like sitting on stage in the middle of a performance instead of sitting in the audience of a concert hall. I still got no sense of an acoustic space.
ursamtl: I have no problems that you are personally disappointed with Ambisonics/Ambiophonics. But for the rest of the readers, I would like to make a few (also subjective) comments from my side.

1) I think you (and others) are "victims" of what you (others) are used to in terms of 5.1 music. Note that this is not meant as a 'personal attack' or criticism. It's just how I see things.

I think the discussion in the previous few posts of the threat are not so much about "Ambisonic or Other Method". It's more about how the recording was done (mics used etc.) and how it was mixed before it came to the stores.

In detail: We are used to what we are used to, and I think the enormous (marketing) power of commercial recording companies and patent holders (e.g. Dolby & DTS just to name two) is often not considered enough as influencing factor on our behaviours. After all, if we are made to believe that what we buy is good, this means $$$ for the seller.

2) The same applies to how music is recorded and mixed before it ends on 5.1 DVD's or DTS CD's. Most 'modern' "Tonmeisters" (German expression for "mixing masters") have their style, which is often similar, i.e. music soundfield in the Fronts (incl. C), Ambience in the Surrounds. That's it. Full stop. In the worst case, there is but some echo and some audience applauding in the Surrounds. Horrible for my taste ...

More so: Professional listening tests (Verdie -> Listening Test) raised the criticism, that Ambisonics gives too much room sound, and that isn't what the "Tonmeisters" want (even if it is correct!). It is also so that most people are so used to Stereo so hearing to much of the room won't sell (even if it is right !).

3) I agree with your point about "coloration" with Ambisonics, but this can be avoided by doing it right. Note that the most of the Ambisonics methods here (such as the guide at the beginning of this threat) are suited for the masses. Real Ambisonics uses signed filters (real-world impulse repsonses) to creat the B-format, as well as creating the decode to xyz speakers. See Conversion between UHJ and B-format for an outline on howto use signed filters for the B-format.

4)
Quote:
The vantage point would be somewhat like sitting on stage in the middle of a performance instead of sitting in the audience of a concert hall.
That's how Ambisonics works. It brings you to the concert hall (restricted by how it was recorded and mixed, as outlined above). If you want to experience different positions in the audience, the only way to go is to use Impulse Responses (such as the ones from Noisevault) you mentioned and used.

Regards,
Andreas

Last edited by kempfand; 27th May 2004 at 19:45.
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