Request Help with Power DVD 6 PLII upmix to DD 5.1

[f@chance]

I have poured over all the different guides and I am having difficulties with the Power DVD 6 converison of stereo to DD 5.1 according to the 2nd edition guide.

Everything works fine in GraphEdit sound comes out of the PowerDVD plug in but when I connect it to the WAV Rest & the File Write it does not write a file. It looks like that there is an incompatibility between input & output pins.

Any suggestions? My end goal is to convert TV episode Stereo sound tracks to DD 5.1. I have tried the V.I-VST methode and it works fine. I am interested to try this method also, or do I already have the best method for converting TV episode sound?

Thansk

[mic]

Personally I'd stay with VST

That said, in case it helps, I assume it's a typo and you used wav dest... Graphedit uses the filters installed on your PC. If you're following a picture or diagram of a graph and something won't connect, sometimes you can try directly connecting input and filter further downstream, and those in between will be inserted automatically.

Filters are sometimes incompatible, there are different versions, and some have been modded. When it won't work often you're trying to use the wrong filter file version -- you might have a few versions of one filter on your drive, or need to download a modded version etc... DXMan will tell you what windows & graphedit use. RegDrop will let you set another file as default.

[f@chance]

Personally I'd stay with VST
Thanks for the reply. I have done three WAV files so far and they sound better than the DS 2.0 with PL II amplifier. The only reason why I wanted to try this method is because of the statement in:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=97975
I don't encode TV shows using the V.I-VST Bidule because I don't think it is best at that. I use the ProLogic II method that uses the processing features of WinDVD, and GraphEdit for those types of programs.

What is your take on this, or is this just a personal preference?

Thanks for any help and my hat off to URSAMTL for the work on the VST modules.

[mic]

"What is your take on this, or is this just a personal preference?"

Just personal preference... Some headphones, speakers etc. add their own dynamics to the mix (ie. huge subwoofers & really tiny speakers), and my take on player conversions is that they often do the same sort of thing. They can put a lot of emphasis on making sure you notice some big difference, & then tell your friends how great it is so they'll go out and buy whatever software too.

If that is what you like, then Cool :)

[f@chance]

I am burning these TV episodes to DVDR and play them back over a Yamaha receiver with Kef eggs 2005.2 connected to the receiver. What ever will give me the most pleasant sound. I do like the full tilt boogie surround sound experience :D but then TV shows have mostly Center speaker activity.

[mic]

"but then TV shows have mostly Center speaker activity."

I think all dialog is routed mostly to center on retail DVDs, so wouldn't be surprised if upconverting to 5.1 the routines tried to mimick this. ;)

That said, if it bugs you, & don't mind maybe a little extra work, Vegas since v 4 I think will allow you to set the positioning, giving you 6 wav files from a stereo wav. It's kind of confusing at 1st, but only takes a couple of minutes after you figure it out. :)

[f@chance]

Vegas since v 4 I think will allow you to set the positioning, giving you 6 wav files from a stereo wav. It's kind of confusing at 1st, but only takes a couple of minutes after you figure it out. :)
I looked in Vegas 5 help file for stereo to 6 wav fles but couldn't find anything. Since I don't have the monitoring of DD 5.1 at my PC It maybe difficult to come up with an optimum setting. I appreciate your help, if you could direct me in Vegas where to look for it I appreciate it. I usually just use Vegas to create video & effects never thought of it for sound.

[mic]

Sure:)
BTW, Vegas is one of the best, if not the best for audio in all sorts of situations.

Import stereo wav 4 times (4 tracks) & set project to 5.1...

Double click positional audio mixer thing at left of track for bottom track & click the icon for LFE.

In the positional mixer for track 3 mute all speaker icons but center, move red square as you wish, set level at bottom.

For track two, right click on wav in track & set to right channel only. In mixer mute all but right 2 speakers by clicking on them, then move red square as desired, but note position -- this represents the listener sort of, so normally you want it closer to the front (I often use levels of 7/2).

For track one do the opposite... Select left only for channel, mute rite and center speakers in mixer, set the levels to the same as the rite channel (the hardest part).

Check playback levels -- might have to tweak a bit at mixer next to video window, make sure no clipping etc...

Render as 48/16 wav, mono, select multiple mono in custom settings.

[f@chance]

Thanks I will give this a try tomorrow as it is late in the UK at this time. Will it output a DD 5.1 signal or 6 waves and then I encode it with something like soft encode?

Thanks for your help, this should be very interesting for me. What do you know Vegas Video is exellent for sound, you learn something new everyday here at doom9 :)

[mic]

Will it output a DD 5.1 signal or 6 waves and then I encode it with something like soft encode?
You'll get 6 individual wav files, named as the speaker it goes to. If you want Vegas to encode ac3, they used to sell the plugin, but I don't know if it's still available -- it's part of the DVDA program that's only sold with Vegas or as upgrade to Vegas, & they've been using it as reason to buy DVDA for a few years now.

BTW, mixing is kind of neat, so you can get by without 5.1 monitoring.

Thanks for your help, this should be very interesting for me. What do you know Vegas Video is exellent for sound, you learn something new everyday here at doom9 :)
Actually Sonic Foundry started Vegas as a multi-track audio prog., & only later started dabbling in Video. It'll handle most all DX plugins, has some pretty decent bus handling should you really want to go wild with your 5.1 mixes, and IMO beats anything out there for audio time shifting. Matching recorded audio to video, cntrl-drag the end of an audio clip (or the end after split), & that's it.

Have fun :D I'll be waiting for a post on how you mod the next project's audio track using bus automation on the filters. :D

[f@chance]

For track two, right click on wav in track & set to right channel only. In mixer mute all but right 2 speakers by clicking on them, then move red square as desired, but note position -- this represents the listener sort of, so normally you want it closer to the front (I often use levels of 7/2).
I just followed your direction and like the way Vegas does the Audio manipulation and mixing. Only one difficulty I have, it is with the red square. I can see where you can limit the moving to either left/right or front/back or all over the place. I have no idea where to place it. I left the default position which is -6.0 db for each speaker and sort of in the middle.

I can't see where I can set the levels to 7/2. Below are some screen shots:

4 times Imported and set to needed channels:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/one2go/Doom9/Vegas4ch.jpg

Surround Panner, the difficult one:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/one2go/Doom9/VegasPanner.jpg

Pan Type:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/one2go/Doom9/VegasPanType.jpg

Room & Speaker layout
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/one2go/Doom9/diagram.jpg

I do encode with Soft ENcode using their default settings. Any additional help with the settings and what your experience has been with optimal settings. My set-up as follow. The SR & SL are next to left and right side of the couch about a meter distance. Subwoofer is next to SL speaker. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[mic]

It can be -- @#$~!@#! challenging :)

As you drag the red square both to the left and up, you'll see the left ft numbers go down, and the left rear numbers move around a bit. Try not to worry too much about it being a floorplan, but just an inconvenient way of setting the levels. Usually wind up (for left) with the square close to the upper horiz line, and below the "a" in Track 1.

On ripped & decoded ac3 I usually saw a ft - rear level difference somewhere around 4 - 6, and if you set the ft higher then 2, you'll usually see clipping in the mixer on playback. Something close to 7/2 split I think gives a bit of room to play with, and it's so easy to lower levels at the mixer that's where I do any fine tuning. If it gives you any prob. there's really no reason you couldn't leave the red square alone and adjust the levels at the track heading as well as the mixer.

RE: the panning types... I have to sheepishly claim both ignorance and impatience. :rolleyes:

When they came out with Vegas 4, I couldn't find hardly any info on this 5.1 stuff in Vegas at all, including from SOFO. So once I got it working with it set to add channels, and that took a while, I decided I had enough. I play the highest peaks in the waveform, adjust at the mixer accordingly, and as they say, what you don't know can't hurt you... :):):)

If it helps at all, I *think* the designers' original idea was you'd import a track for drums, locate those on a stage, import a track for your brass, put them somewhere else, that sort of thing.

[f@chance]

Thanks for the reply and I am preparing two more audio compilations :D

I will durn them to DVD and see how they compare to the VST methode.

You mentioned "ft" is that feet? I only see db values and keep a difference of 4 between the front and rear. I am interested in the film settings how that works here is the latest shot of my settings. For the letf one the value for front is -1.8 and rear is -5.8. For the Film settings it is -13 for fromt and rear.

Thanks again.

Modified Surround Panner & Film settings
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a243/one2go/Doom9/VegasNewPanType.jpg

[mic]

You mentioned "ft" is that feet?
Sorry -- got lazy, meant front. :p

I only see db values and keep a difference of 4 between the front and rear. I am interested in the film settings how that works here is the latest shot of my settings. For the letf one the value for front is -1.8 and rear is -5.8. For the Film settings it is -13 for fromt and rear.
Great! Let us know how it works out, what you think.:)

As a habit I always try to keep levels hot because of the way ac3 encoding always seems to reduce volume levels. That doesn't mean it's the correct way, or sounds the best, so let us know. :)

[f@chance]

I listened to the 4 different encodings one with the film settings, one with the add channel settings as per my last screen shot and another with the add channel method and the little red dot closer to the Left & Right speakers and finally an encode done with the Plogue Bidule-based Method.

I must say for my ears the separation with Plogue Bidule-based Method I like best, the film setting was the worst. It has a more natural DD 5.1 sound. The Vegas method gives you better volum & LFE channel but for my liking the separation between F, L & C especially during dialogue is not as good in the Vegas method. The Plogue Bidule-based Method is very clear on dialogue mainly through the center with a hint on the other front speakers. But that is just me. Some love the all booming surround sound experience.

With the Plogue Bidule-based Method I wish that the volume would be a little bit more. It is though on the same level as any bought DVD and I have to crank up the amp. Perhaps I will run a normalization on the channels especially the LFE.

In any occasion it has been an education and another step towards producing better DVDs from captured TV programs. Thanks for the help mic and everyone else that hangs out here at the audio encoding forum.