Please check this files! Is it true HE-AAC or not

[dimzon]

One decoder say it's HE-AAC, another decoder (HE-AAC capable) say it is LC-AAC

file1
http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0V801F9YDXP6I3O76EZ7QMAOF6

file2
http://s20.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=26I3J7RE7TGI22FQWOCHGZATNZ

file3
http://s20.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3UOAK2J7DVAKM0XUIVQHEDFRQI

:stupid: :thanks:

[buzzqw]

take this info with a grain of salt

chicago overture --> He-AAC
other 2 harrison --> LC-AAC

using foobar 0.83 special edition

i have done few more test (always with HE AAC profile) with the same encoder used for create the example files

result:
1) if i do directly an mp4 audio file -> is recognized as LC AAC
2) if i do .aac audio file -> is recognized as HE AAC
3) if i do .aac audio and with mp4creator trasform into .mp4 file -> is recognized as LC AAC

hope that help

BHH

[dimzon]

buzzqw
how about file 2 ?

Thanx!

[KpeX]

Why don't you post the command line or settings you used to encode the file. If you didn't encode the files, you should know better than to ask.

[buzzqw]

sorry i downloaded two times harrison file :stupid:

witchdrums is resulting --> LC-AAC

i have done more test with Nero Wave Editor exporting audio with HE-AAC profile

1) nero is able to output .mp4 file recognized as HE-AAC
2) nero is able to output .aac file recognized as HE-AAC
3) if i trasform .aac audio file in .mp4 audio file with mp4creator -> is recognized as LC-AAC

BHH

edit:typo

[dimzon]

I'm using latest versions of Haali Media Splitter + FFDSHOW to decode this files.
FFDSHOW says:
file 1 - HE-AAC (SBR AAC)
file 2 - HE-AAC (SBR AAC)
file 3 - LC-AAC (AAC)

MP4Box -info says:
file 1
C:\Music\ab>C:\DVDRip\mp4box\MP4Box.exe -info "Chicago - 01 Overture.m4a"
* Movie Info *
Timescale 600 - Duration 00:01:32.228
Fragmented File no - 3 track(s)
File Brand mp42 - version 1

File has root IOD
Scene PL 0x01 - Graphics PL 0x01 - OD PL 0x01
Visual PL: No visual capability required (0xff)
Audio PL: AAC Profile @ Level 1 (0x28)

Track # 1 Info - TrackID 101 - TimeScale 22050 - Duration 00:01:32.229
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "soun" - Sub Type "mp4a" - 1986 samples
MPEG-4 Config: Audio Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x40
MPEG-4 Audio AAC LC - 1 Channel(s) - SampleRate 22050 - SBR SampleRate 44100
Synchronized on stream 1

Track # 2 Info - TrackID 2 - TimeScale 600 - Duration 00:00:01.000
Track is present in Root OD
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "odsm" - Sub Type "mp4s" - 1 samples
MPEG-4 Config: ObjectDescriptor Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x01
Synchronized on stream 1

Track # 3 Info - TrackID 1 - TimeScale 600 - Duration 00:00:01.000
Track is present in Root OD
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "sdsm" - Sub Type "mp4s" - 1 samples
MPEG-4 Config: SceneDescription Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x02
Self-synchronized

file 2:
C:\Music\Nightwish>C:\DVDRip\mp4box\MP4Box.exe -info Witchdrums.m4a
* Movie Info *
Timescale 600 - Duration 00:01:18.621
Fragmented File no - 1 track(s)
File Brand 3gp4 - version 0

File has root IOD
Scene PL 0xff - Graphics PL 0xff - OD PL 0xff
Visual PL: No visual capability required (0xff)
Audio PL: High Quality Audio Profile @ Level 2 (0x0f)
No streams included in root OD

Track # 1 Info - TrackID 1 - TimeScale 44100 - Duration 00:01:18.622
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "soun" - Sub Type "mp4a" - 1693 samples
MPEG-4 Config: Audio Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x40
MPEG-4 Audio SBR - 2 Channel(s) - SampleRate 22050 - SBR SampleRate 44100
Self-synchronized

file 3:
C:\Music\hh>C:\DVDRip\mp4box\MP4Box.exe -info h_harrison_-_rozhdenie_stalnoy_krysy_08_04.m4a
* Movie Info *
Timescale 90000 - Duration 00:01:17.497
Fragmented File no - 3 track(s)
File Brand mp42 - version 0

File has root IOD
Scene PL 0xff - Graphics PL 0xff - OD PL 0xff
Visual PL: No visual capability required (0xff)
Audio PL: High Quality Audio Profile @ Level 2 (0x0f)

Track # 1 Info - TrackID 1 - TimeScale 44100 - Duration 00:01:17.508
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "soun" - Sub Type "mp4a" - 1669 samples
MPEG-4 Config: Audio Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x40
MPEG-4 Audio AAC LC - 1 Channel(s) - SampleRate 22050
Synchronized on stream 2

Track # 2 Info - TrackID 2 - TimeScale 1000 - Duration 00:01:17.497
Track is present in Root OD
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "odsm" - Sub Type "mp4s" - 1 samples
MPEG-4 Config: ObjectDescriptor Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x01
Self-synchronized

Track # 3 Info - TrackID 3 - TimeScale 1000 - Duration 00:01:17.497
Track is present in Root OD
Media Info: Language "und" - Type "sdsm" - Sub Type "mp4s" - 1 samples
MPEG-4 Config: SceneDescription Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x02
Synchronized on stream 2

How such files was be created:

file 1 ("Chicago - 01 Overture.zip"):

aacenc32.exe -vbr tape -lowpass 8000 -profile HE -notag -mono mix -zs -pns -aac c:\temp2.wav c:\temp2.aac
aacpatch.exe c:\temp2.aac c:\temp3.aac
mp4box.exe -add c:\temp3.aac -SBR -ismax "Chicago - 01 Overture.m4a"


file 2 ("Witchdrums.zip"):

enhAacPlusEnc.exe c:\temp2.wav Witchdrums.m4a 65500 s

file 1 ("h_harrison_-_rozhdenie_stalnoy_krysy_08_04.zip"):

aacenc32.exe -vbr tape -lowpass 8000 -profile HE -notag -mono mix -zs -pns c:\temp2.wav h_harrison_-_rozhdenie_stalnoy_krysy_08_04.m4a


Tools used:

aacenc32.exe (http://www.google.ru/search?q=aacenc32.exe&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) - Ahead AAC Encoder v3.2 (Frontend by LoggerSoft v0.79.064)
aacpatch.exe (http://www.google.ru/search?q=Nic's+AAC+patch&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) - Nic's Patcher for AAC Files v0.1
enhAacPlusEnc.exe (http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=7107) - Enhanced AACPlus (AACPlus v2) Codec
mp4box.exe - No comments :)

[Kurtnoise]

For the file 3, add -aac in your command line. You will have the HE profile in properties.

enhAACPlusEnc provides AAC PS streams (Parametric Stereo). It's not SBR/HE exactly. You have this info because the decoder doesn't have a way to know this PS "layer".

And mp4creator doesn't recognize the SBR flag IIRC...

[dimzon]

For the file 3, add -aac in your command line. You will have the HE profile in properties.
But I need mp4 container!

[Rockaria]

I downloaded the first two files : one is recognized as HE(SBR) in foobar2k and the other as LC.

As I feel convenient using foobar2k for transcoding to AAC(MP4 or M4A) with nero plugin in a step, I've tried some transcoding with it experiencing some ODD facts :
. when I set the bit rate to 80kb or below, it outputs HE-AAC correctly.
. when I set it to 96kb or over, it outputs LC and the profile returns to the LC option.

Is there any restrictions in the nero AAC encoder automatically setting the encode mode by the given bit rate?
If so, can we safely conclude, with the bit rate over 90kb, the LC mode is more efficient?

[edit]
Searched & seems to have got the answer from audiocoding.com (http://www.audiocoding.com/modules/wiki/index.php?page=SBR) myself.
SBR means "Spectral Band Replication" and is used with AAC (called aacPlus or AAC+ then) or MP3 (called mp3PRO) to increase the coding efficiency of these standard codecs, but only for low bitrates around 20-64 kbps for AAC and 32-96 kbps for mp3PRO, as it will not help for higher bitrates when the codecs have sufficient headroom to encode the high frequencies without SBR.

Also based on this site (http://www.codingtechnologies.com/products/aacPlus.htm) , the aacPlus v2(AAC+SBR+PS) seems to help the quality even further @ 18~48 kbps. Thanks kpex.

[dimzon]

However, when all the streams are de-muxed from their containers to RAW AAC, Foobar2000 detects them all as being AAC-HE ;)
Does you know any command-line tool to demux AAC from M4A ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Foobar2000 reports: -

File 01 as being AAC-HE at 44100 (22050) Hz

File 02 as being AAC-LC at 44100 Hz

File 03 as being AAC-LC at 44100 Hz

However, when all the streams are de-muxed from their containers to RAW AAC, Foobar2000 reports them all as being AAC-HE at 44100 (22050) Hz ;)


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

Does you know any command-line tool to demux AAC from M4A ?I don't do much by command.... but I think MP4Box can be forced to do it!

[Rockaria]

However, when all the streams are de-muxed from their containers to RAW AAC, Foobar2000 detects them all as being AAC-HE
...
Does you know any command-line tool to demux AAC from M4A ?
Well, when I inspected the foobar2K demuxed AAC, it was still containing the ADTS header(not the raw AAC). But the format information changed from LC to HE when demuxed.

Maybe you can use the commandline tool MP4Creator (http://www.rarewares.org/mp4.html) or Ivan & Menno's Frontend. (http://members.home.nl/w.speek/ivan&menno.htm)
[edit] <<<<<<>>>>>>>>
The patched version of MP4Creator demuxed the Witchdrums.m4a to HE-AAC recognized in foobar2k.

[dimzon]

The patched version of MP4Creator demuxed the Witchdrums.m4a to HE-AAC recognized in foobar2k.
Can You post command line for demuxing?

[Rockaria]

D:\mp4creator60.EP>mp4c -extract=1 witchdrums.m4a witchdrums.aac
I renamed the application for easy use.
The foobar2k file info window says :
bitrate = 67
channels = 2
samplerate = 44100
aac_profile = AAC HE
aac_header_type = ADTS
codec = HE AAC
--------------------
3467264 samples @ 44100Hz
(rounded samples : 3466848)

[bond]

you can check whether the aac stream in a .mp4 file contains sbr or not easily with the mp4box tool via the -info switch

[dimzon]

you can check whether the aac stream in a .mp4 file contains sbr or not easily with the mp4box tool via the -info switch
please Read 700545 and 701021 about file 3 !

[Rockaria]

I tested the file 3(h_harrison..) having same reults as file 2(witchdrum).

So what is your conclusion?

. the best(easiest) tool to get AAC+SBR(+PS) in a container(M4a or MP4) is enhAacPlusEnc?
. the best AAC info tool : ffdshow for MP4(M4A) and foobar2k for AAC?
. the best MP4 (de)muxing tool is MP4Creator?
. the best MP4/AAC/M4A player for AAC+SBR(+PS) ?

[dimzon]

...the best...
:readrule:

[Rockaria]

Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively. Each and everyone has their own view about what's best in a certain area. The best is what works best for you!
Well, I was asking what were the best tools to suit your needs, if they are solved.

[Kurtnoise]

But I need mp4 container!
Use mp4box to include your stream in mp4 container.


btw, I don't understand this kind of thread...