How much of a gamble is Ogg in AVI nowadays?

[Chainmax]

I know that MKV would be a much better choice, but the player I intend use it on (which may or may not support Ogg audio) only supports AVI files. So, what can I expect of Ogg in AVI?

[multicone]

Your player supports Vorbis in AVI :O ? What player is this ?

[Doom9]

It seems ffmpeg can create those.. but can anything actually properly read it? I doubt it. Those players that mention Vorbis mean separate streams, not muxed into AVI.

[stephanV]

It's not a gamble, its wasting time. It doesn't even make sense, unless you think ~64 kbps Vorbis sounds better than ~128 kbps MP3

[Chainmax]

multicone: I didn't say my player (uDCDivX) supports Ogg in AVI, it most likely doesn't, but I want to try.

Doom9: About the second part of your post: I know that, but it doesn't hurt to try. As for ffmpeg being able to create these streams, can't I just use AVIMuxGUI? Or do you mean that a video player that can play Ogg+AVI can only be made using ffmpeg?

stephanV: you're not making a fair comparison. The latest listening tests at HA have shown that Ogg aoTuVb4 perfroms better on the (at least) 80-128kbps range that even MPC or AAC.

[multicone]

stephanV: you're not making a fair comparison. The latest listening tests at HA have shown that Ogg aoTuVb4 perfroms better on the (at least) 80-128kbps range that even MPC or AAC.

Chainmax, you don't understand. The overhead of Vorbis in AVI, when being muxed with FFMPEG, is so big that a 64 kbps Vorbis stream will take the same place in the AVI like a 128 kbps MP3. Reason is that many bits have to be padded, otherwise AVI can't hold Vorbis at all.

[stephanV]

multicone: I didn't say my player (uDCDivX) supports Ogg in AVI, it most likely doesn't, but I want to try.
It won't.


Doom9: About the second part of your post: I know that, but it doesn't hurt to try. As for ffmpeg being able to create these streams, can't I just use AVIMuxGUI? Or do you mean that a video player that can play Ogg+AVI can only be made using ffmpeg?
Nothing will play it (maybe ffplay though, but I don't think anyone uses that), and AVIMUx GUI only supports reading those files till now, not writing.


stephanV: you're not making a fair comparison. The latest listening tests at HA have shown that Ogg aoTuVb4 perfroms better on the (at least) 80-128kbps range that even MPC or AAC.
I am making a fair comparison, because Vorbis (don't call "Vorbis" "Ogg", that's wrong, Ogg is a container, Vorbis an audio format), uses huge amounts of overhead when placed in AVI. I will post some real numbers if you want later on.

[Chainmax]

I see, I didn't take overhead into account. Thanks for the clarification :).


P.S: I know about the difference between Ogg and Vorbis. Blame it on a brain fart :).

[eb]

Can I offer a little help
Below is my old .avi file with 6 audios
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/9386/jpg4dk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Only because aac file AviMuxGui was used to mux all audios.
With Vorbis no problem to use VDM to create .avi with Vorbis

sample (ftp://www.eb.enterpol.pl:eb@www.eb.enterpol.pl/666test+ac3+aac+pgg+mp3+mp2.mkv)

Use VLC player to playback.
My hope is that in near future all hardware players will have VLC capabilities.

eb

[bond]

.mkv is not the same as .avi

[eb]

Only because of aac file AviMuxGui was used to mux all audios.
With Vorbis no problem to use VDM to create .avi with Vorbis

.mkv is not the same as .avi

I know, Hali is not happy because of my naming, but when using AVI-Mux GUI...

[bond]

it seems to me you are muxing vorbis into .mkv, not .avi

[eb]

Yes, but for this sample AVI-Mux GUI was used, not mkvmerge GUI.
I know Matroska group is going to kill me for this.

In my sample are also another 4 audio that can be muxed to .avi in VDM with no need for any additional program, so relation is as 4 vs 1.

[bond]

avimux gui also muxes .mkv