Movie White Noise Comes Slightly Undersized Not Matter What I do

[rkr1958]

This post applies to DVD-RB Pro 1.00 RC4.1, 1.00 RC4.0 and 1.00 RC3.0 and the movie, "White Noise". I'm use to my backups coming out at around 50 MB or so undersize. But not matter what I do the movie "White Noise" is coming out to 4,415,490,048 bytes. I'm running DVD-RB Pro with CCE-Basic.

What I've tried:

1. I've blanked the extras, using Vobblanker leaving only the main movie and then ran that with one audio stream selected through DVD-RB Pro.

2. I've used TMPGEnc DVD-Author to reauthor the movie with one audio track and ran that through DVD-RB Pro.

3. I've used DVDShrink, which no compression on the Vobblanked one to reauthor with the movie and one audio track and ran that through DVD-RB Pro.


[18:58:30] One Click encoding activated...
-----------------
[18:58:31] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- CCE Basic 2.70.1.4 encoder selected.
- VTS_01: 3,150,891 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 141,012 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 73.4%
- Overall Bitrate : 7,058/5,647Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,054,028KB
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,125/600/5,647 Kbs
[19:02:17] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 4 minutes.
[19:02:17] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 0
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 1
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 2
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 3
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 4
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 5
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 6
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 7
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 8
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 9
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 10
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 11
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 12
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 13
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 14
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 15
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 16
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 17
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 18
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 19
- Creating M2V for VTS_01 segment 20
- Extracting STILLS for VTS_01 segment 21
[20:21:46] Phase II ENCODING completed in 79 minutes.
[20:21:46] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_01
- Reading/processing TMAP table...
- Rebuilding seg 0 VOBID 1 CELLID 1
- Rebuilding seg 1 VOBID 1 CELLID 2
- Rebuilding seg 2 VOBID 1 CELLID 3
- Rebuilding seg 3 VOBID 1 CELLID 4
- Rebuilding seg 4 VOBID 1 CELLID 5
- Rebuilding seg 5 VOBID 1 CELLID 6
- Rebuilding seg 6 VOBID 1 CELLID 7
- Rebuilding seg 7 VOBID 1 CELLID 8
- Rebuilding seg 8 VOBID 1 CELLID 9
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- Rebuilding seg 15 VOBID 1 CELLID 16
- Rebuilding seg 16 VOBID 1 CELLID 17
- Rebuilding seg 17 VOBID 1 CELLID 18
- Rebuilding seg 18 VOBID 1 CELLID 19
- Rebuilding seg 19 VOBID 1 CELLID 20
- Rebuilding seg 20 VOBID 1 CELLID 21
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_01
- Rebuilding seg 21 VOBID 2 CELLID 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_02
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_01_0.IFO
- Updating TMAP table...
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[20:29:19] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 8 minutes.

Done.
[20:29:19] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 91 min.

EncoderMinimized=1
RemoveDTS=1
HC_Quality=1
HC_Matrix=1
SkinVersion=8
Skin=Rockas Original
QuEncodeType=0
DVD_Label=WHITE_NOISE
DVD_Name=WHITE_NOISE.ISO
AudioDub=0
HalfD1=00
Convert_16_9=00
DisableInterlace=00
ISO_Output=0
CCE=2
Completed=8
MovieOnly=0
HalfExtras=0
[Paths]
QuEnc=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\QuEnc\QuEnc.exe
ReJig=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\ReJig\ReJig.exe
HC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\HC Encoder\HCbatch.EXE
ProCoder=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\Encoders\EclPro\EclPro.exe
DECOMB=C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll
MPEG2DEC=C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll
Working=H:\AUTHORED_DVDS\WHITE_NOISE\TEMP\
Output=H:\AUTHORED_DVDS\WHITE_NOISE\
Source=G:\DVD_RIPS\WHITE_NOISE\VIDEO_TS\
CCEBasic=C:\Program Files\Custom Technology\Cinema Craft Encoder Basic\cct2.exe
[Audio]
Selected=100
[Subpictures]
Selected=111
[CCEOptions]
VBR_bias=25
Quality_prec=16
eclPasses=2

[Rippraff]

Hi,

open your Rebuilder.ini and copy this line under [Options]:
CCETargetSectors=2260000
You can try it also with 2263000 or 2264000 but this could result in an oversized output. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[pg55555]

Or you can try an un-preprocessed source and let the movie only or movie and menu options of RB do what you are doing by preprocessing with vobblanker / TMPGEnc DVD-Author / Srhink

[rkr1958]

Thanks guys / gals for the suggestions. Tried both ... same result ... same final size. This one has got me stumped.

[SpazzHH]

What is the "Q" Factor of the movie? If it is at or near 1, it can't get any bigger(better quality). Not even if there is more space available. Bigger does not always mean better.

[writersblock29]

Exactly. CCE doesn't artifically inflate file sizes once a project's as good as it can make it.

- Overall Bitrate : 7,058/5,647Kbs

It's gotta be a nice, low, Q value.

[rkr1958]

What is the "Q" Factor of the movie? If it is at or near 1, it can't get any bigger(better quality). Not even if there is more space available. Bigger does not always mean better.How do I get the "Q" Factor?

[jptheripper]

doesnt matter unless you are in opv mode, in 2pass you should be darn close

are you blanking anything in dvdrb?

and if you are removing audio/subs, you do that before prepare right?

[rkr1958]

doesnt matter unless you are in opv mode, in 2pass you should be darn close

are you blanking anything in dvdrb?

and if you are removing audio/subs, you do that before prepare right?No and yes. I'm selecting only one audio track & all subtitle tracks in DVD-RB. Any blanking I've done is prior to DVD-RB. In some cases, such in cases # (2) & (3) above where I've reauthored the movie, there is only on audio track and no extras (main movie & menus) prior to DVD-RB.

[jptheripper]

dont do any preprocessing

you can blank in rb the same as any other program, and its more reliable.

[writersblock29]

@rkr1958

*Getting the Q factor*

There are many ways this can be done, but I'll focus on how to do it within Rebuilder since you've already got this installed. What I'd do is take Rebuilder off of one-click mode, so that you can do your prepare stage without jumping into encoding. Then I'd select One Pass VBR and let Rebuilder prepare the original files. If it selects a low Q value (in this instance, it'll probably be sitting at 1 by the sounds of things), we'll know for sure how your regular multipass project recieved the sizing it did. The One Pass setting works by selecting the lowest Q that will work with the given file size constrants, and runs a single, full, encode at that setting; in most cases, the results are quite comparable to multipass encodes, but take a fraction of the time. Of course, the trade-off is unpredictable sizing.

You may want to set up a different Working Path folder for Rebuilder to use while running the One Pass prep, so we don't mess with the original project's log. But I'm betting you'll see where your undersizing's coming from with this method: With an overall bitrate of 7K+, it's just GOTTA be due to the Q. And that's great! It's just CCE telling you that it's done the best it can do (which is a lot!) with your movie. As Yoda once put it: "Size matters NOT."

[rkr1958]

@rkr1958

*Getting the Q factor*

There are many ways this can be done, but I'll focus on how to do it within Rebuilder since you've already got this installed. What I'd do is take Rebuilder off of one-click mode, so that you can do your prepare stage without jumping into encoding. Then I'd select One Pass VBR and let Rebuilder prepare the original files. This option is greyed out for CCE-Basic ... I did verify that it's there (i.e., not greyed out) for the other versions of CCE (none of which I have) ... So I selected CCE SP & One Pass VBR (w/analysis) ... this is what I got

[14:22:44] One Click encoding activated...
-----------------
[14:22:44] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- encoder selected.
- "One Pass VBR (w/analysis)" mode is enabled.
- VTS_01: 2,938,414 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V & .AVS files
-- Processed 140,999 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 72.7%
- Overall Bitrate : 6,994/5,595Kbs
- Space for Video : 4,016,864KB
- Analyzing VTS_01 for optimal Q factor.
-- TargetSize (sectors):2,038,558
-- Sampling 1416 of 140999 frames.
- Q Value selected: 18
- HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,069/3,047/5,595 Kbs
[14:26:17] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 4 minutes.
Aborted.

[writersblock29]

@rkr1958

Q value of 18, huh? Hmm... that's not it, then. 18 is a pretty decent value -- nice 'n low -- but a multipass should still be taking you close to the 4.36 mark with CCETargetSectors set to 2260000 (which you've tried).

As far as blaming the pre-processing... I dunno. I normally use DVD Remake, and I'm not too certain how Vobblanker handles stuff. You could try blanking out the extras with Rebuilder and see how it all comes together (on the few occassions I've used this feature, all's gone well).

On the other hand, I doubt you'll notice much of a difference with at least THIS project, quality-wise. 7K+ is pretty happenin' for a bitrate (in my own DV encodes, I don't think I've ever pushed past 6K) which makes me wonder about the bitrate of your audio track. 7K's the chosen average bitrate, but bitrates tend to spike in sections of the movie as the scenes demand it... Since Rebuilder analizes the entire VTS, I wonder if that particular value was chosen to keep your bitrate DVD-Compliant. Only Jdobbs could really say "yes" or "no" to that... But there are times when the video bitrate can spike along with a "fat" section of the audio's bitrate and push the TOTAL bitrate past the 9.8K maximum of a DVD-Compliant stream. Naturally, if you put a limit on the bitrate to prevent this, it'll affect the final filesize.

Any thoughts from the others out here on this?

[rkr1958]

Sorry about my inexperience but ...

The "HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,069/3,047/5,595 Kbs" what are they? At first I thought that they were the maximum, minimum and average bitrates that CCE used but the LOW is way too high to be the minimum.

What about "Overall Bitrate : 6,994/5,595Kbs" ... is that the maximum and average used by CCE?

[SpazzHH]

Sorry about my inexperience but ...

The "HIGH/LOW/TYPICAL Bitrates: 6,069/3,047/5,595 Kbs" what are they? At first I thought that they were the maximum, minimum and average bitrates that CCE used but the LOW is way too high to be the minimum.
That is the low bitrate that will be used all right. A 3000 kbs swing is plenty.

What about "Overall Bitrate : 6,994/5,595Kbs" ... is that the maximum and average used by CCE?
You must be in R1 land. 5595 is the bitrate at 23.976 frames per second that RB processes NTSC sources at. The 6994 is what it ends up being after "Rebuild" when the output is flagged to push it's final frame rate to 29.97.

[TheSeeker]

Try using different quanti mats. That solved some issues I was having with sizing and HC encoder.

Also, Im not sure if your aware but you will gain pretty much 0 quality by having those extra 50-100 mb towards the video stream. That little of an undersizing makes pretty much no impact on the resulting quality of the video stream.