"System idle porcess" in TaskMgr using 99 CPU...

[ukb008]

My H drive (2nd HD) has hanged up ans therefore the My Computer window is frozen, and so is the taskbar. The Task Manager Processes page says the CPU use for all Processes is 00 except System Idle Process which is 96-99 (Mem Usage 20K). The Applications page says:

1. MyGetRight...Running (this is true)
2. Doom9's Forum - PC Hard & Software - Mozilla Firefox...Running (this is true)
3. Doom9's Forum - Post New Thread - Mozilla Firefox...Running (that's this thread in composition)
4. My Computer (Not Responding)...Not Responding
5. H:\ (Not Responding)...Not Responding

Q1 If CPU use for all processes is 00 then how am I running a MyGetRight download and using Mozilla Firefox to compose and post this thread? Maybe these tasks don't require the CPU at all? (Mem Usage, of course, is there for all of them between 12,500 - 25,000 K.)

Q2 What will happen if I were to select System Idle Process and click End Process? Will that unfreeze the machine? And why is CPU usage 99% to keep the computer Idle?

Regards.

[fccHandler]

Q1 If CPU use for all processes is 00 then how am I running a MyGetRight download and using Mozilla Firefox to compose and post this thread? Maybe these tasks don't require the CPU at all? (Mem Usage, of course, is there for all of them between 12,500 - 25,000 K.)
They probably all use minimal CPU, such a small amount that it shows up as 00 most of the time.

Q2 What will happen if I were to select System Idle Process and click End Process?
Try it and see. ;)

"System Idle Process" isn't a real process. I think it's just an indicator that shows the amount of time your computer spends being idle.

You can probably unfreeze explorer by ending the "My Computer" and "H:" applications, but if you were saving data to H it may be corrupted. I would also reboot (to flush out any open handles), and then immediately Run "chkdsk H:"

[neo75903]

still, i had that problem too, never figured out what caused it.
It does slow down other apps. I quick logout/login usually solves the problem, but it is hardly a solution when encoding a video.

[Doom9]

I think the System Idle Process is actually no process but a helper indicator that always has all the remaining CPU power. It's not like it's using any CPU cycles (except when task manager displays it). If you don't touch your PC, and not running CPU intensive applications, a CPU usage of 0% is normal.. a browser in idle mode, and a download manager might require RAM, but don't need too many CPU cycles. And you cannnot end that process.. just try it.. Windows won't let you. There are a couple more processes for which the same applies.. Windows knows which ones it needs to run properly. You can safely close the explorer though.. it may tear down your desktop but normally it's restarted, and if not, just launch the task manager again and start explorer (no path or extension necessary).

[neo75903]

no no thats my point, i does use cpu, well at least showing in taskmanager.
I dont have the problem anymore cause i recently have re-installed my windows after 5 years! of service :)
Next time i try to make a screenshot, but honestly, i dont want to see that coming back for obvious reason :D

[Doom9]

go into the task manager. Go to the Processes tab, and clock on CPU to arrange the processes by CPU usage. At the top, you'll find the System Idle Process with a very high CPU usage. Now look at the bottom of the task manager. You'll see the number of processes, the CPU usage and Commit charge. What does CPU Usage read? 0%, right? And if you go to the performance tab, what does CPU usage show? 0% again. So, next time better think a little harder or read my posts a little better:
the System Idle Process is actually no process but a helper indicator that always has all the remaining CPU power.

[ukb008]

Thaks fcchandler, neo75903 and Doom9.

fcchandler wrote:
You can probably unfreeze explorer by ending the "My Computer" and "H:" applications, but if you were saving data to H it may be corrupted. I would also reboot (to flush out any open handles), and then immediately Run "chkdsk H:"

Yes, I ended "My Computer" and "H:"; that resulted in these entries disappearing from the TaskManager window, but these actual widows remained, as did their indicators in the taskbar. The taskbar was frozen so tight that Download indicator percentages were moving in the actual MyGetRight window, but not in the taskbar. And yes, I had to reboot... Chkdsk H: is probably not an option on WinXP, but I may easily be wrong on that count.

He also wrote:
"System Idle Process" isn't a real process. I think it's just an indicator that shows the amount of time your computer spends being idle.

What befuddles me is that If it indicates CPU resources that are idle and that is 95%+, there would be no reason for the PC to hang, would there? Something was gobbling CPU time, causing it to put client requests on hold, but the TaskManager gave no indication of such a process. That's what I found odd.

My RAM size is 256 MB. I feel I should make it at least 512, if not more.

There's some speculation as to what would actually happen if one were to end the System Idle Process. Well, I'll try that right after this post, and later add the result to it.

Regards.

Added a couple of minutes later:

Doom9 was right. Windows summarily refused to terminate that process.

Regards.

[neo75903]

@doom9:
i know what u mean, but on my dual, it actually uses one cpu at full throttle, as such saying 50% is being used by the idle process.
(as in the graph and in the process list)

[Doom9]

I have my sincerest doubts that the idle process can actually use cpu cycles. I have yet to see that since they introduced the task manager, and I've seen plenty of PCs, enough with HT, dual core and servers with multiple CPUs.

[Sirber]

I have my sincerest doubts that the idle process can actually use cpu cycles. I have yet to see that since they introduced the task manager, and I've seen plenty of PCs, enough with HT, dual core and servers with multiple CPUs.
Well, it does unless your OS send HLT to the cpu. Linux can do it (kernel), but on windows you need CPUIdle.

more infos here: http://www.cpuidle.de/works.php

[fccHandler]

Chkdsk H: is probably not an option on WinXP, but I may easily be wrong on that count.
Actually the ancient "chkdsk" command was enhanced especially for Windows XP, since they seem to have got rid of scandisk...

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/chkdsk.mspx

[Doom9]

Well, it does unless your OS send HLT to the cpu. Linux can do it (kernel), but on windows you need CPUIdle.my dual core chip idles all the time. My CPU usage is 0% when I don't touch the machine and am not encoding. Cool&Quiet further reduces the core speed and voltage so the CPU runs at room temperature.

[neo75903]

erm like i said, there was something wrong with my windows in which the idle process was actually using one cpu at full. I dont have it anymore after a fresh installation. Never figured out what caused it because i always have another cpu to finish what i was doing and allows me to logout/in again.
But i have to say that when it does, it appearantly runs at low priority, it appears only to slow down the explorer shell.

I am also talking about windows 2000, and i never saw this on a XP.

[Nematocyst]

What befuddles me is that If it indicates CPU resources that are idle and that is 95%+, there would be no reason for the PC to hang, would there? Something was gobbling CPU time, causing it to put client requests on hold, but the TaskManager gave no indication of such a process. That's what I found odd.

My RAM size is 256 MB. I feel I should make it at least 512, if not more.


That's because explorer is attempting to probe the disk containing your H: drive. CPU usage isn't the issue, explorer is waiting on the hardware which isn't responding, effectively freezing the thread. Unfortunately, explorer is pervasive enough that these types of problems can lead to freezing of other threads. You have to either remove the defective drive or repair/replace it.

It's possible to overburden your system by just copying files. The problem isn't that the cpu overloads, it's that the harddrive can't keep up and so the interrupts for data keep occuring. In this situation you'll notice CPU usage at 0% even though the threads doing the copying (usually explorer) are inaccessible.

As to the RAM issue, it's unrelated to your problem. Basically, if you aren't paging to the harddisk, you don't need more ram. 256 is pretty minimal though, at least for Windows XP. It certainly wouldn't hurt to add more.

[ukb008]

Thank you, Nematocyst, for your cogent reply.

You feel my H: is defective? Could be, or maybe a failure is imminent. These Samsung HDs are giving me a lot of pain; I found Seagate's better. But maybe I should go for Western Digital, which is supposed to be the leader. But after the restart, reading from and writing on H: is as usual.

You have written:
Unfortunately, explorer is pervasive enough that these types of problems can lead to freezing of other threads.

Can we do something about this, like ending explorer? Will that have other undesirable consequences?

And, yes, my RAM is woefully puny, and I'd better do something about it.

Regards.

[Nematocyst]

You feel my H: is defective?

Uh. You're the one who said it hung up in your original post. So, I believed you. If you just meant the exploring process died, well, then the drive may be fine.

Can we do something about this, like ending explorer? Will that have other undesirable consequences?

As Doom9 indicated, explorer handles your desktop. If you kill it, your taskbar will disappear and you mostly don't have a desktop anymore. As Doom9 indicated, explorer usually restarts on its own. But if not, CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up task manager, choose File and Run... and enter explorer.

One thing you can do that will probablly help is dissociate explorer processes. To do this, open an explorer window eg. My Computer, go to Tools and choose Folder Options. You should see an option "Lauch folder windows in a separate process". Enable it.

[ukb008]

Okay. Done. Enabled.

Thanks and Regards.