Can Linux do what I need?

[ananth]

I need to have windows because I run several programs such as Autocad, and some advanced properties in Office that Open Office doesn't have yet.

However, I download a lot of stuff using bit torrent (it is always running) and Windows is really really REALLY unstable with it.

I have two hard drives (160GB and 250GB) with NTFS partitions with data I need and can't erase.

So I have tentatively chosen to run two comps, one with a high end proc running windows and another with a low end proc running linux with all the hard drives. I have two other hard drives, 120GB each, which can be formatted any way I want. I want to put a 120, 160 and 250 on the linux machine. The other 120GB HDD, i will use for the windows machine.

My first question is, will linux recognize (read AND write to) the NTFS partitions? The 160 and 250 have a single partition each.

I want to set up a home network so that I can download files on the linux onto the NTFS partitioned HDDs. Then, I want to be able to read and modify the files through the windows system, and burn them, if necessary onto the CDs. Can I do this? Which Linux distros can I use that will satisfy my requirements? Thanks.
- A

[ananth]

I forgot to mention, I need linux for a number of other reasons too. I use a neural network software, xfig, that only runs linux. Also need to do some divx conversions in linux. For these, I need compatibility with NTFS because some of the files will be in the 250/160GB hard drives.

[Joe Fenton]

You can setup linux to read NTFS, but it's very hard to get writing. Don't bother trying. If you do, I can pretty well guarantee you'll wind up wiping out the NTFS partitions. Use linux friendly filesystems on the linux machine, and access NTFS on a Windows machine via something like Samba.

By the way, what Windows BT client are you using that is so unstable? You might try bitcomet or Azureus. I run Azureus 24/7 for weeks in linux. I use bitcomet on the Windows machine, but it's rarely in use more than a few hours.

I have my home network set so the linux box is the network connection with the firewall set to block (most all) the ports. I use Firestater in linux to control the firewall and the local network of my other computers. The other computers on the local network use IP masquerading to access the net through the linux box (controlled via Firestarter). I normally use ftp to transfer stuff to or from the other computers on the local network, but I could just as easily use Samba or NETFS or something similar.

Any new distro of linux would serve your purposes. You might look at Fedora Core, Mandriva, or Ubuntu. Those are probably the easiest to setup for folks new to linux. Current distros of linux come with K3b for CD/DVD burning. It's quite a bit like Nero and serves all my writing needs.

[Teegedeck]

I'd like to add SUSE to that list.

The only reliable NTFS-driver for Linux is the one from Paragon (http://www.ntfs-linux.com/) ATM and that's a commercial driver.

[ananth]

I am a big fan of azureus and started using it in Windows machine. But for some odd reason, Azureus just shuts down when I run it. I don't know what the problem is. So, now I started using BitLord which has been running reasonably stably. But I hate the fact that bit lord doesn't have all the features of Azureus, which in my opinion, is simply awesome. Now, I keep getting the blue freakin' screen of death at a reasonable regularity whenever I multitask. I haven't tried bit comet yet, but imo, bitlord is working reasonably well, and I dont want to fix anything unless its broke... Besides, once I get the network setup, I should be fine...

Now, for the really technical issues. I have chosen Ubuntu, which is what several of my friends recommended. I tried installing it, but it didn't detect the hard drive because it didn't recognize the additional IDE controllers on my mobo.

I have a Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2 mobo and I have the three HDDs all installed in the additional ATA controller (2 in the primary, 120 and 160, and the 250 in the secondary as master). Though it is a raid controller, I don't have raid enabled and have my hard drives configured to be recognized as individual hard drives. If I were installing windows, I would hit F6 to install the additional raid drives. However, I don't know how to do it using linux. I tried looking at the manual, and it didn't help me... Well, to be honest, it provides some help for Red Hat 7.3, though I don't understand it.

It says Mount the driver CD-Rom
[/]mkdir cdrom (for mount point)
[/]mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /cdrom (mount cd-rom under /cdrom directory)

And then it goes to give quite a few install directions, but I don't know where to enter these things at all. I am a complete linux n00b.

Now, what do I need to do in order to install ubuntu as a 2nd operating system on the 120gb HDD (in addition to windows) which resides on the additional ata controller? And is this recommended? If not, I am open to moving two of the hard drives onto the normal IDE controller, but I still need the use of the serial ATA (also present) and additional IDE controllers. I have too many ata devices to be accomodated by just two normal IDE ports.

How do I get this to work? And btw, I eventually plan to install a duron 700 onto the mobo. Will this mobo be compatible with the processor?

Please let me know if you need any more details. Thanks.

[yokem55]

In general Linux cannot write to ntfs partitions. There is a way using fuse, lufs, and a program called captive-ntfs, but it is rather outdated. How full are your ntfs drives (the 160 and 250)?

[Neo Neko]

I need to have windows because I run several programs such as Autocad, and some advanced properties in Office that Open Office doesn't have yet.

Actually you could run them under Linux with crossover office or Wine/X. There could be issues though. But not many.

However, I download a lot of stuff using bit torrent (it is always running) and Windows is really really REALLY unstable with it.

That is odd... what version of windows and what bittorrent client? 2000 or XP should not have any issues with bittorrent AFAIK.

I have two hard drives (160GB and 250GB) with NTFS partitions with data I need and can't erase.

So I have tentatively chosen to run two comps, one with a high end proc running windows and another with a low end proc running linux with all the hard drives. I have two other hard drives, 120GB each, which can be formatted any way I want. I want to put a 120, 160 and 250 on the linux machine. The other 120GB HDD, i will use for the windows machine.

My first question is, will linux recognize (read AND write to) the NTFS partitions? The 160 and 250 have a single partition each.

As stated NTFS support is kinda iffy due to the closed specs for the system. NT4 NTFS should be rather ok supported. But drives formatted with NTFS present in 2000/XP are not because Microsoft changed several small undocumented things in the format. You can use captive NTFS as mentioned. The problem with that is there is a speed bottleneck. Rather severe one IIRC.

I want to set up a home network so that I can download files on the linux onto the NTFS partitioned HDDs. Then, I want to be able to read and modify the files through the windows system, and burn them, if necessary onto the CDs. Can I do this? Which Linux distros can I use that will satisfy my requirements? Thanks.
- A

Ok you have data on those NTFS partitions etc. Surely they are not full. Right? And surely said data is not somehow tied to NTFS. So it could be hosted on EXT3, ReiserFS, or even Fat32 no? So lets see here. You have 2x120Gb, 1x160Gb, and 1x250Gb. This is a bit like a tower of hanoi puzzle. You have to shuffle the data around from drive to drive without exceeding the max storraga capacity of the drive. You have two free 120 drives. Use those to set up your two clean systems. One in the linux box and the rest in the NT box. You should have just about 230Gb free between the two after the OS is installed. The next step is to set up Samba under linux and make it a member of the same workgroup as the NT box. Make sure that your NT login uses an actual password for best results or else Samba might be dificult about letting you in without a password. Not the default action you know. Once you have that set up you can map your home directory from the linux box as a network drive on the NT box. That done you should be able to clean off either the 160Gb or 250Gb drives. If possible I would go for the 250Gb first as that should be a bit less shuffling I think. Split the data between the remaining space on the 160Gb, the new local primary 120Gb, and the remote 120Gb. Remove the 250Gb drive and install it in the Linux box. Partition and format it with the filesystem of your choice. Then map it to a convinient place in your Linux file system. /home/yourname/storrage for instance. That done you can just clear off all the remaining data from both remaining drives in the NT box. Leaving it with just the 120Gb drive and the windows install on it. Move the 160Gb over and rinse, lather, and repeat. Re-organise your files as needed. And compute happy with out the need to worry about NTFS! Windows will not care if the data is on a samba network drive. :D

I wish I could find good free NFS software for windows though. I have heard that NFS is more responsive etc than SMB or CIFS network shares. That and I would like to try it just to say I have. But at any rate that should take care of two birds with one stone. No worries about NTFS and no data lost. ;)

[Neo Neko]

I have a Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2 mobo and I have the three HDDs all installed in the additional ATA controller (2 in the primary, 120 and 160, and the 250 in the secondary as master). Though it is a raid controller, I don't have raid enabled and have my hard drives configured to be recognized as individual hard drives. If I were installing windows, I would hit F6 to install the additional raid drives. However, I don't know how to do it using linux. I tried looking at the manual, and it didn't help me... Well, to be honest, it provides some help for Red Hat 7.3, though I don't understand it.

It says Mount the driver CD-Rom
[/]mkdir cdrom (for mount point)
[/]mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /cdrom (mount cd-rom under /cdrom directory)

And then it goes to give quite a few install directions, but I don't know where to enter these things at all. I am a complete linux n00b.

All those things would be entered at the command line or in a terminal window. Think DOS or cmd.exe under Windows. ;) But you are in luck :D Those instructions are for Redhat 7.3. A rather old distro. Most moddern non-server oriented distros these days typically have automount daemons which check every so often and mount drives if there are media present. So it should be a matter of sticking it in the end. It should be mounted under /mnt/cdrom and quite possibly will show up on your desktop without you having to do anything other than inserting the disk. :D If all else fails you can just share the CD-ROM on your NT box via SMB with the linux box and get it that way. Or FTP. Etc. If your network is working you are practically set. ;)

Now, what do I need to do in order to install ubuntu as a 2nd operating system on the 120gb HDD (in addition to windows) which resides on the additional ata controller? And is this recommended? If not, I am open to moving two of the hard drives onto the normal IDE controller, but I still need the use of the serial ATA (also present) and additional IDE controllers. I have too many ata devices to be accomodated by just two normal IDE ports.

Setting up a disk to multiboot works best if there is free "unpartitioned space" on the drive. If that is not the case you have to resize the partitions which "can" result in lost data. :( Further if the drive is on a SATA controller and the distro does not support SATA by default then you might not be able to install it. :( Honestly I have no experience with SATA under Linux. But if you move the drive to a regular IDE controller and install. Then recompile the kernel with SATA support and move it to the SATA controller again you should be fine. Sometimes at install the distro offers you a choice of special purpose kernels. For things like SMP or perhaps even SATA support. The thing to remember with Linux is that all devices required to boot a machine must be part of the kernel. IE not a module. But everything else can be compiled as a module.

How do I get this to work? And btw, I eventually plan to install a duron 700 onto the mobo. Will this mobo be compatible with the processor?

The best answer to that is to check the vendor page. It will tell you there what it supports. ;)

[Joe Fenton]

SATA has been fully supported on linux for quite some time now. It's much better than Windows were even the latest release of XP Pro and XP64 need a driver floppy for SATA.

[Neo Neko]

SATA has been fully supported on linux for quite some time now. It's much better than Windows were even the latest release of XP Pro and XP64 need a driver floppy for SATA.

Mine didn't. The system I am on now installed XP-SP1 and SP2 just fine without a special SATA driver. But at any rate I never said that Linux didn't support SATA. Just that I had no experience with the two and couldn't comment. But if true that is good news.

[Joe Fenton]

Mine didn't. The system I am on now installed XP-SP1 and SP2 just fine without a special SATA driver. But at any rate I never said that Linux didn't support SATA. Just that I had no experience with the two and couldn't comment. But if true that is good news.

Sounds like you have one of those systems that can imitate a PATA interface using the SATA. Not all mobos allow that - mine doesn't. That would certainly allow you to use Windows on the SATA without special drivers. If you are looking to use SATA with Windows, I guess that's a feature to look for in the feature list.

I know you didn't mean that linux didn't support SATA, that you didn't know. That's why I said all new distros do - because I DO know. :D I ran into that early since FC2 and distros of the same age had a bug that caused trouble with SATA. On kernels of that age, if you had BOTH SATA and PATA drives, the PATA driver would come up for the PATA drive and then try to take control of the SATA as well (they had been attempting to make one driver do all), but then the SATA driver would come up and take control of the SATA drives, so the PATA driver would start causing missing DMA int messages and all sorts of related problems. With those distros, you could use SATA or PATA - not both. That got fixed with FC3 and other distros the same age. So yes, I know ALL ABOUT SATA on linux. ;)

[shevegen]

Sounds as if you can tap into the best of two worlds - Linux and Windows (no matter how, its an advantage to be able to tap into two different OS worlds.)

On Linux I love to use ctorrent, the unstable version. Its easy to compile it from source (extract, ./configure, make, make install), and i found it more reliable than the bigger clients.

I made a difference some time ago and bought external hdd's, which are FAT so I can share data between windows and linux.
Reading from NFTS shouldnt be a problem. Also, Samba is nice.

If you see stuff like "mkdir blabla", then you just type or copy/paste it into a terminal/shell.
If you run KDE, you can click Strg+F2 (whats it? well dont know the name, just press that key to the left, then F2, release, and you can enter "konsole". for gnome something similar exists... gnome-multiterminal or so... there also exists multiaterm or just aterm, and many many other shells. These be the command line thingies you will see on screenshots :> ).

Just dont give up too early, and if you cant solve it today, try again in some days. This helps sometimes!
If you feel too happy you can try kanotix, it worked for me for a very long time (still does actually but I want to understand and learn more so I always look for new stuff, until i am perfectly happy to settle...)

[ananth]

Thanks for all your comments guys. I really appreciate it. After trying around for the past couple of weeks, I decided to connect the 120 and 160 drives to the ordinary pata connectors. I installed Ubuntu linux v5.04 and it is running well.

I am starting to read the how-to's from www.linux.com and it has been very useful in helping me achieve a rudimentary understanding of the file system.

First off, I accessed the Device manager and I saw that it detected both the hard drives. I had initially erased the partition on the 160 and wanted to install the OS on the 120GB drive. But now I understand that I have to access the hard drive through the corresponding filename in /dev folder. There are too many and I can't figure which is which. My question is, how can I access the 2 hard drives and partition it appropriately?

Next, I need to install Azureus on the OS. I want to learn to compile it because I will need to do that again to the statistics program FSL. Since different distributions have different locations where files are stored, how can I find where I need to store each file in Ubuntu? Also, I understand that I need to write the makefile. I don't have any experience writing makefiles, and I would greatly appreciate any help in this. How do I write the makefile, where do I store it, how do I compile the program?

Also, is java already installed with this OS? Or do I need to do it separately? That brings up another question of how to install Java if it isn't installed already. Should I download the rpm.bin file or just the ordinary .bin file?

There are a lot of other questions that are in my mind, but once I understand the file system and understand how to compile files, I think I'll be in good shape for the time being. Thanks.
- Ananth

[Joe Fenton]

When connected to PATA, you get devices named as such:

/dev/hda = master on primary IDE
/dev/hdb = slave on primary IDE
/dev/hdc = master on secondary IDE
/dev/hdd = slave on secondary IDE

If the master on the primary IDE has four partitions (for example), they will show as /dev/hda1 through /dev/hda4. /dev/hda refers to the drive as a whole, not a partition. The others are handled similarly.

These device names are how you access the drives at a low level (sector level). The drive needs to be mounted to access it at a file level. For example

mount -t vfat /dev/hdc2 /shared

would mount the second partition on the master drive on the secondary IDE as a FAT drive accessible at /shared. If you did "ls /shared" you would get a listing of the root directory of that partition. Assuming it was FAT of course...

[ananth]

When connected to PATA, you get devices named as such:

/dev/hda = master on primary IDE
/dev/hdb = slave on primary IDE
/dev/hdc = master on secondary IDE
/dev/hdd = slave on secondary IDE

If the master on the primary IDE has four partitions (for example), they will show as /dev/hda1 through /dev/hda4. /dev/hda refers to the drive as a whole, not a partition. The others are handled similarly.

These device names are how you access the drives at a low level (sector level). The drive needs to be mounted to access it at a file level. For example

mount -t vfat /dev/hdc2 /shared

would mount the second partition on the master drive on the secondary IDE as a FAT drive accessible at /shared. If you did "ls /shared" you would get a listing of the root directory of that partition. Assuming it was FAT of course...

Thank you. I guess I can figure that from here, hopefully... I was able to install azureus and java using the ubuntu starter guide. Someone pointed me to that resource. I am really glad I ran into it.

Another question is, is there a way to open the .r01, .r02 etc. files that Winrar creates? I need to extract those files and the archive manager doesn't have any way to do it. Thanks.
- Ananth

[ananth]

Thank you. I guess I can figure that from here, hopefully... I was able to install azureus and java using the ubuntu starter guide. Someone pointed me to that resource. I am really glad I ran into it.

Another question is, is there a way to open the .r01, .r02 etc. files that Winrar creates? I need to extract those files and the archive manager doesn't have any way to do it. Thanks.
- Ananth

Uh, a more comprehensive search in the same Ubuntu Starter guide answered the question about the rar files. Now, I'm able to access them pretty well.

[Joe Fenton]

I use Total Command and WinRAR via WINE. If you're dealing with Windows archives and files, Total Commander can't be beat and works great in linux using WINE.