Best "shrink" program for image quality?

[Jeff Smith]

I'm new, have lurked, read, searched, read the forum rules, etc...and politely and hesitantly ask my first question (using no un-needed capitals).

I am trying to achieve the best quality DVD recording I can. I have done several trials with DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink with success, now I'm trying to tweak for the best quality. I don't compress, do strip out all I can, try to use all the suggestions here about letting DVD Shrink "analyze" prior to recording...but, I read a post on doom9 forum a while ago about DVD Shrink possibly degrading picture quality compared to other ways of shrinking.

I wasn't sure if this was only true when compressing, or even without compression just using it to strip down to the main film. This post was a few years back but still on the forum by one of the moderators, or in the FAQs somewhere.

I'd like to end up on 1 DVD if I can, but with any valued film I'll split into 2 discs.

I am big into home theater, and have one of the better projection systems in the country (short of the ultra rich). I'm borderline computer savvy but really am trying hard to learn a few things well...all regarding home theater.

The screen size is 9x5' so picture quality is goal #1. I don't even know if this is a moot point as I don't notice bad quality now, but I wondered if those in the forum know that a better quality (PQ wise) way to shrink or strip down a DVD is out there. I'll still use DVD Shrink if the latest version (downloaded last week) is as good as other programs today. I don't mind buying a program if it will make a notable difference. I also don't mind decrypting, reading or writing at slower speeds if it helps. I'll buy a particular brand or type (+/-R) media if it helps.

If it helps to know, I use an Electrohome 9500LC 9" CRT projector with heavy modifications on a high gain torus (compound curve) screen. If any here have big screen fetishes like me, you know that the bigger the screen, the more good (or poor) picture quality shows up.

I use a PC as a source for HDTV and DVD playback. The PC is a P4 1.9 with 500MB RAM, and Theater Tek software DVD player, Radeon 9700Pro vid card (also modified), 60GB hard drive, HiPix HDTV card, and nothing else. It is just used for HT. It is not connected to the internet or other PCs. I'm looking to upgrade when the HTPC geeks tell me its time, and when I do I'll learn and use such things as ffdshow.

I'm a senior member of AVScience forum, but again, not a PC pro, and they refered me to this forum. But my eyes (or is it my brain?) begin to blur after reading too many tutorials with unfamiliar repetative and similar terms terms. I still read them, and I'm slowly getting to the top of the newby level (I hope).

The PC I use to rip is a local built P4 3.0 with 2GB Ram, Sony DVD RW DW-U14A recorder (all formats), two 40GB hard drives, NVidia GeForce 5500 128 RAM video card. I record on this PC and playback on the other. The HTPC (playback) can read DVD+/-R but nor RW. That's not an issue for me.

OK, that was a really long winded way of asking, "is using DVD Shrink (in the uncompressed mode) to strip down to the bare movie degrading my picture quality in any way or should I be looking at another program at my level?"

Thanks for the patience.

Jeff

[Pookie]

If you use DVD Shrink to remove the extras and subtitles and various languages WITHOUT resizing the main movie VOB files, you will have the best possible quality, since the original video wasn't touched. Unfortunately, sometimes the main movie itself exceeds 4GB and has to be transcoded with DVD Shrink or similar apps. Sometimes the resulting file(s) looks great, sometimes it doesn't.

There IS a high quality way of re-encoding the DVD to 4.7GB (or less), but it will be time consuming, especially on your hardware platform. It involves using the free DVD Rebuilder app. The resulting DVD looks VERY nice, but you pay for that niceness by tying up your system for X numbers of hours while the encode goes on. http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdrb.htm

I know Socio at AVSForum posted a method using AviSynth and Didee's LimitedSharpen script, which results in some amazing looking material, but you'll want a much faster system to do your re-encodes if you try it. You'll also need a fair amount of time to set it up the first time.

As always, the trade off for quality is time.

[Jeff Smith]

Do you mean my ripping PC (P4 3.0, 2GB RAM!) isn't fast enough, or my playback machine?

If I could get it set up right the first time, could I do the same thing over and over again on each disc, or would I want to filter/sharpen/etc each differently?

For now I will stick with DVD Shrink...but I'm intrigued, especially if I rebuild my play ack machine faster and can do it all on the same machine.

[Pookie]

Whoops. I missed the section on your ripping machine. Re: DVD Rebuilder and AVISynth, the re-encoding performance is mainly dependent upon the number of filters you use. From Didee's site, here's a prime example of how much you can enhance the detail of a film by using AVISynth.

http://home.arcor.de/dhanselmann/_samples/nibel_comp1_(crystality).avi

Looks pretty great, eh? I'm guessing that encode will probably run at 2-5 FPS on a 3GHZ machine. A long time, but you did ask for quality.

If you're interested in that, do a search for IIP and LimitedSharpen.

[Jeff Smith]

Can the processing be done before I burn it to a DVD so the end result is a DVD that looks better on any machine? I would, of course try it to see what looks best on my system. I never thought about filters etc until I upgraded my playback PC, but if I'm copying discs anyway, and I want the best copy I can get, I wonder if I can "limited sharpen" the picture at that stage?

Or would it be too hard to gauge until I saw it on the big screen (probably).

Either way, if I don't compress the image at all using DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter, isn't a digital copy rhe same quality as the original DVD? Or is there something I'm missing here?

Does the way you say make more accurate copies than my novice way, or does it just improve upon the original whereas DVD Shrink doesn't.

I know this is simple to you guys, but I'm not sure I get that basic fact yet

Thanks again,

Jeff

[feedback]

I am big into home theater, and have one of the better projection systems in the country (short of the ultra rich).
Why not just buy a DL burner and DL media and be done with it. Your resulting video will be one to one and will be as optimized as your system.
I am trying to achieve the best quality DVD recording I can.


Regards,:)

[Pookie]

By re-encoding and using the LimitedSharpen and/or IIP functions in AVISynth, the resulting "enhanced" DVD will look sharpened on any system you play it on. As you can see from the example above, it works pretty nicely, but it WILL take you a good 24+ hours to re-encode a DVD. Remember as well, you're going to have to learn a bit about AVISynth- an incredible application, but requires some work to learn. It isn't "one click" by any stretch of the imagination.

[BSpielbauer]

>>>> am big into home theater, and have one of the better projection systems in the country (short of the ultra rich). I'm borderline computer savvy but really am trying hard to learn a few things well...all regarding home theater. <<<<

I agree with the reply a couple of post above this one, written by "Feedback.". Based on everything that you have written, you are definitely a candidate for using dual layer burning, at least in some cases. I recommend the following techniques, as an approach:

-Use no compression. None. You can use any of the major software programs out there, including DVDShrink or DVDDecrypter, and make certain you always opt for "no compression" for those programs which offer the opportunity to compress.

-If you do not mind, go ahead and get rid of the unwanted stuff. Dump the extras. Decide how important the extras are to you, and the director's commentaries, and all of the other fluff. Get rid of what you can. Get rid of audio tracks you will not need, and subtitles you will not need.

-If the resulting "main movie" is still too big to fit onto one DVD single layer blank, then just pop in a dual layer blank. Current costs are running around $5 to $6 a disc. They continue to come down in costs, though (they were $9 and $10 back at Christmastime.) Then, you can go ahead and make a bit-for-bit backup of the entire disc.

-Of course, there will still be those discs which are single layer to begin with, and your backup can then be a single layer blank, at bargain basement rates.

-There will also be a FEW discs which are dual layer, but somehow manage to fit onto a single layer disc, once you have removed all of the stuff that is not important to you. Some people here even dump the closing credits, to avoid changing discs.

-However, the fact is that most of the newer mainstream releases you come across will use a dual layer disc. Yet, the description of your playback equipment and also the fact that you posted with such concern about the effects of compression indicate that you are a prime candidate for the "dual layer" approach, since it sounds as if you might be able to afford the costs, when it is absolutely necessary.

In the end, the question you have put to others is really only one that YOU can answer. WHAT are your real priorites. HOW IMPORTANT is picture quality versus the inconvenience of getting up in the middle and changing a disc? HOW LARGE is that screen you are viewing the materal on? (The larger screens show any compression much more readily that the smaller ones do). HOW IMPORTANT are the economics of this endeavor to you?

That said, your original post implies that you might have had a question abotu DVDShrink when you choose to use "No Compression." The answer is: that "no compression" means "no compression." The resulting image will be identical to the original (assuming nothing else gets in the way, such as bad media, or a bad burn, etc.) It will be a perfect copy of all of those "ones" and "zeroes."

Hope this helps,

-Bruce

[CWR03]

A friend of mine always wants to borrow from my DVD collection. He's a careless slob, and I don't want him ruining my original discs, so I've tried to loan him my back-ups in XviD. He throws a tantrum saying he has to have the menus and extra features. I sometimes use CloneDVD for myself, but when leaving the extras on the disc the video quality tends to suffer if it's a two-hour movie, and he also whines about that. I finally ended up using CloneDVD and selecting only the movie for one disc (if it's two hours or less there's no compression or loss of quality at all) and selecting all the extras on another. The big dope crybaby still whines about having to change the disc, but he's otherwise satisfied. CloneDVD does work with dual-layer discs, in which case all extras can be left intact and the backup will look and work just like the original, but I ain't paying $10 a disc for a backup I'll probably never get back.

Maybe it would be cheaper to just get new friends.